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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#21
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HH56
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Quote:

jfrom@kanter wrote:
Since there seems to be questions about our new production tanks. I can provide some detailed photos of the tanks and what is included. I also believe we have one sample tank that has the side cut out. So I maybe able to provide pictures of that as well. I am out of the office today so could post them tomorrow if there is interest. Also if there is any questions I will do my best to answer them.

Thanks
James

Can't speak for anyone else but I would be interested in seeing or learning details of the tanks just for the heck of it.

If it fits as well as the repro water pump, ujoints, brake master and wheel cylinders, and trans side mounts I have installed on the 47, doubt anyone will have issues with the tank.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 12:01
Howard
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#22
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BH
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bkazmer wrote:

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gas tanks have been made of blow molded plastic (I think sulfonated PE)for a long time. It doesn't corrode and can readily be made in odd shapes to fit around the rear suspension. Remember that the placement hanging under the trunk just ahead of the bumper is no longer acceptable for crash safety (Pinto). Also, the fuel pump and sender is sealed in for emission control.

When I worked at the Avanti plant in Yo. Ohio, back in the late 1980s, I found notes that they had been looking at cross-linked polyethylene tanks for the new, but stillborn, 85 convertible. When Avanti production rose from the ashes of bankruptcy, they sort of picked up where previous owner/management left off, but hacked up the original Studebaker-designed steel tank to fit the new convertible.

However, I seem to recall a big class action suit in recent years against the supplier of cross-linked polyethylene tubing for plumbing due to product failures. Also, I've heard that the stuff quicky degrades with exposure to UV (less than 30 days). Hope the modern plastic fuel tanks are made of better stuff.

Yet, I once met a fella who told me that he pulled up to a gas station to fill up his mid-80s Dodge pick-up, only to find gas pouring out on the ground. Seems the exhaust pipe had developed a hole and had blown enough hot gas against the plastic tank to melt a hole in it. Turns out there was no shield between the tank and the exhaust pipe.

Tank placement ahead of the rear bumper wasn't the problem with the Pinto. The fault lies in the fact that the top of the gas tank served as part of the trunk floor. The drop-in tank was screwed to the floor, with the tank seam serving as a mounting flange. This arrangement had been in use for years with other Ford product for years; you could smell the gas fumes in the passenger compartment of a high school friend's old 68 Fairlane fastback when the tank got rusty around the seams (from the inside) and started leaking. Yet, when a Pinto was hit from the rear with sufficient force, the Pinto's tank buckled, along with the trunk floor, which could rupture the tank seam and spill fuel.

Many other cars of the period with similar fuel tank location exhibited no such problem, but their tanks were sufficiently shielded.

I've seen Packards of the 50s in bone yards that had been hit hard enough from the rear to kink the frame and rear fenders, but with no evidence of fuel leakage - let alone, fire. I think we're reasonably safe with this arrangement in these cars.

Meanwhile, in-tank fuel pumps and senders have been sealed to metal tanks for decades.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 12:09
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#23
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HH56
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Didn't the Pinto also have a problem with the differential fill plug being directly in line to poke a hole in the tank if either moved substantially. I think there was a plate of some kind that was retrofitted to ensure one would slide past the other if they were forced together.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 12:16
Howard
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#24
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Dave Brownell
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Sorry if my use of "white plastic" has caused some consternation among forum readers, but all of our VW/Audis (nine total, years 1998-2013) have white blow plastic formed tanks, usually closely fitted underneath the back seat area, on the outside of the body metal, protected from debris by a metal shield. Our newer BMWs have much the same, again closely formed, but in a dark gray or black plastic. My C-6 Corvette has two dark plastic tanks, saddle-style, connected by a cross tube. All of these car makers obviously are concerned with collision protection and cramming as much fuel capacity into available space. Our older (C-2 and C-4 era) Corvettes have the traditional steel tanks that can be dropped out without too much trouble. On both the VW/Audi and BMW, troublesome electric high pressure pumps are accessed by removing a panel (under the rear seat or trunk floor) to lift the pump up out of the plastic tank. A dealer can swap a pump on a Golf in less than 20 minutes if it's warranty work. Ask me how I know.

Regarding the Pinto/Mustang II firebombs, I think that it was the sharp metal "ear" edges on the front side of the differential carriers that would penetrate the metal gas tanks in certain rear end collisions. Ask me, again, how I know.

All things considered, I'd much rather take my chances in a newer car in any sort of collision than in my older ones. Death by barbecue is not in my preferred plans.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 12:54
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#25
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PackardV8
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Ok. So new info (at least to me) that 98 and up VW/Audi use white plastic tank. That begs the question as to why white as opposed to the mote common black???? Thee answer to that might reveal some changes forthcomming or extant creating problems with our classics.
Not that i expect an answer. Just an idea to ponder at this point.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 13:32
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#26
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Steve
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Kanter: I would like to see the available gas tank pic's too. Thanks.

Steve.....

Posted on: 2014/6/9 14:14
Steve
Old cars are my passion

1951 Packard 200
1953 Packard Clipper Custom Touring Sedan
1955 Dodge Custom Royal Lancer Tri-tone
1966 Rambler Classic 770 Convertible
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#27
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Dave Brownell
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I am calling the VW/Audi plastic white, when it's really a yellowish white color. My Range Rover and BMW and the newer Corvettes have the dark gray or black plastic. To me, the VW stuff looks like a much thicker version of what you would see in coolant recovery and windshield washer tanks, but much thicker, surrounded by aluminum protection. It's really the under the back seat access panel for the fuel pump that lights my candles.

But it's also been a few years since I have actually looked at our VW family fuel tanks. For the past ten or so years, they all have come with plastic (and removable) aerodynamic cladding on the undersides, making them go through the air better and resist slush and slop build up.

Think what Packard could have done with that technology! Couple those chassis cladding panels with Torsion-Level, stainless steel exhausts, and GM's zinc-coated sheet steel (and air flow rocker panels) and our Packards would not be the rare beauties that they are. They might have survived like 57 Chevies.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 15:54
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#28
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BH
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DaveB845 -

You're right, it was four bolts sticking out of the Pinto's differential/axle housing that punctured the fuel tank, as it was buckled and shoved forward.

Apparently, my memories are a bit fuzzy. I seem to recall, now, that about the time that the Pinto case was going to trial, one of the networks dug up additional evidence showing that the seams on those drop-in tanks used in earlier FoMoCo product had ruptured in some rear-end collisions. Unfortunately, I don't remember if anything ever came of that.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 16:41
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#29
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PackardV8
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Do any PRODUCTION cars use a fuel cell in tank??? None that i am aware of.

Posted on: 2014/6/9 17:11
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: today was unique, good, bad and unusual....
#30
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jfrom@kanter
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<a href="http://s671.photobucket.com/user/JamesRFrom/media/Packard%20400/GasTank.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i671.photobucket.com/albums/vv72/JamesRFrom/Packard%20400/GasTank.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo GasTank.jpg"/></a>

Here is a high res photo of the tank from the outside. Per Fred and Dan the Our tank is virtually indistinguishable from the original. Seams, ribs, & tubes. I am still out of the office so I will try to get an internal shot hopefully tomorrow.

Thanks
James

Posted on: 2014/6/10 15:06
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