Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
56 user(s) are online (34 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 56

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 2 (3) 4 5 »

Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#21
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
I just remembered what else I was going to ask.

Can anyone tell me how much power steering fluid that system holds? By "that system" I mean the Bendix on the 1955 Seniors. The power cylinder is leaking and while I plan to buy a new one, I'd like to put that off for a while I've bought some Bars Power Steering Stop Leak which states that one bottle treats up to 3 quarts. I've looked in the FSM, The Power Steering Booklet and the 1955 Chilton's Repair Manual with no luck. The booklet mentions when drain the system, a two quart container should be used but that's for the '53 & '54 system though I imagine it's probably still valid. But the right amount to put back in would make me feel more comfortable.

Posted on: 2015/9/12 21:07
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#22
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
The only way I can see that the gas could get to the top of the pump from the filter bowl or from anywhere else via the tubing is if the diaphragm has a pinhole allowing the gas to get on top of the diaphragm and run out the air vent. There is a small hole in the top casting directly below the part bolted to the engine which is open to air. Possibly fuel could be running out that hole and laying on the pump if it got on top of diaphragm. If the diaphragm does have a problem it needs to be corrected before fuel gets into the engine. On second thought I think there is a seal on the actuating rod so not as likely to get to engine as it is to squirt out the vent hole.

The way the filter is constructed the tube from the pump opening is in the casting at the very top. Not likely there would be any siphoning. If the diaphragm is good have you positively ruled out a crack in the glass and fuel is dripping on the engine and then running down onto the pump?

Posted on: 2015/9/12 21:23
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#23
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
The only way I can see that the gas could get to the top of the pump from the filter bowl or from anywhere else via the tubing is if the diaphragm has a pinhole allowing the gas to get on top of the diaphragm and run out the air vent. There is a small hole in the top casting directly below the part bolted to the engine which is open to air. Possibly fuel could be running out that hole and laying on the pump if it got on top of diaphragm. If the diaphragm does have a problem it needs to be corrected before fuel gets into the engine.


Good God! Thank you Howard, I never even considered that possibility or consequence! No more driving until I get that sorted out! Pulling the dipstick and taking a wiff of the oil sounds advisable too.

Quote:

The way the filter is constructed the tube from the pump opening is in the casting at the very top. Not likely there would be any siphoning. If the diaphragm is good have you positively ruled out a crack in the glass and fuel is dripping on the engine and then running down onto the pump?


I am really wondering about that diaphragm. I got started on this because the engine at steady speed felt like it was running out of gas. Push down on the pedal, and it smoothed out. That said, I haven't look that closely at the glass bowl. I will definitely do that as well.

Howard, over the last five years, you have saved my posterior more times than I can count. Thank you yet again.

Posted on: 2015/9/12 21:40
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#24
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
OK - Here is the latest installment of the Fuel Pump Mystery. Following Howard's advise, I went over the Fuel Filter Bowl and tubing down to the pump. Could not find any trace of a leak. Also, the tubing from the Filter Assembly to the pump enters below the rim of the pump so gas would have to hop up to get on the rim/ledge.

I did pull the dipstick for the sniff test for gas and it was at best, inconclusive. Modern gas simply doesn't smell like the gas back in the 50s that I remember. However, the oil on the dipstick didn't smell quite right either when I opened a fresh bottle of oil to compare. It may be my imagination but it did seem to have a slight gas smell. I must add that I have trouble smelling modern gasoline. The oil still felts "slippery" but it will be changed before the car is next started.

That leaves the pump. I now think Howard nailed it with the gas leaking out the air vent and down to the ledge. I'm hoping that the gas in the oil smell is my imagination as I've got a great engine and the thought that I may have damaged it makes me sick.

The next step, I guess, is to remove the pump and open it up to check the diaphragm for holes.

I'm attaching another picture of my Fuel Pump for reference of anyone else with similar trouble.

Thanks again to Howard, O_D, Ross, DuaneG, Riki and bobp.

Attach file:



jpg  (103.69 KB)
3087_55f75baabd31e.jpg 1280X958 px

Posted on: 2015/9/14 18:44
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#25
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
FLASH!
The third owner of my '55 Patrician and I have become friends and I mentioned I'd like a dual action pump. He is also into old Nashs and Hudsons and he looked up in a book he has for a fuel pump that was used on the 320 Packard V8 that was used in the big Nash and Hudson in '55 & 56

For point of reference it is an AC pump #4293. So I punch the number in and lo and behold there are three NOS AC 4293 pumps currently on eBay. Or rather there was. There are now Two so if anyone wants to grab one of these there is one for $44.95 and and another for $49.95 with free shipping.

Here is the site
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-56-Nash- ... sh=item2805f27394&vxp=mtr

Mine arrives here on Saturday so if it does fit, I'll add it to the Parts X-Ref.

Now I know it will need to be rebuilt for the new gas but at least it will be a NOS core.

More later

Posted on: 2015/9/15 1:12
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#26
Home away from home
Home away from home

JWL
See User information
Here's a thought: If your engine has crankcase blow-by, it may be exiting from the pump vent and settling on the outside of the pump. Blow-by will escape from the engine at every opening and seal. To check remove the oil filler breather and run the engine. If vapor comes out you have blow-by.

(o{}o)

Posted on: 2015/9/15 10:53
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#27
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
Thank you JW. I learn something from this site every time I post - and even when I don't. I had never heard of that before - which isn't saying much. I will give that a try and report back.

I received an update from eBay this AM stating that the Dual Action Fuel Pump I bought last night will be delivered tomorrow instead of Saturday. So I'm grateful for your post now as if I had put the new pump on and still had THE problem, I would have been lost in space.

I do plan to go with the new pump in the near future as it should give my Patrician an almost bullet proof wiper system. Which in Oregon can be very necessary (although not the last couple of years). I will, however, preserve the AC Single Action Pump so the next caretaker will have the option to return to the OEM style.

More news as it happens.

J.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 11:08
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#28
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
I hope you are going to examine the old pump as I would surely like to know what or if you find something amiss with the diaphragm.

If there is no sign of moisture on top then I am at a loss and at least you will have a new pump but no satisfaction as to why it was needed. If the diaphragm is in sad shape because of fuel that is something we need to be aware of. IIRC you bought your kit from the same place lots of us have.

Another possibility might be damage if the diaphragm was stretched or pulled. I know it is hard to keep the lever down and diaphragm in a stroke position when tightening the screws holding the halves together but that has been the cause of some premature failures and excess pressure problems. If the diaphragm is relaxed when tightened the max stroke causes it to be pulled very tight and it can tear at one of the holes or in the center where the stem and plates are fastened together.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 11:18
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#29
Home away from home
Home away from home

Jim L. in OR
See User information
Absolutely, Howard. I plan to do a complete examination of the old pump and I promise lots of pictures so others may spot what I will probably miss. And you're right about the Vendor. I especially want to know about the last bit as I will have to get a modern rebuild kit for the new pump before I do any driving other than to see how it performs.

And yes about rebuild process. I have not all that fond of memories of trying to assemble the pump in the manner you describe. So it's entirely possible that I'm the one responsible for any trouble I find. Wiser folks than I will hopefully be able to judge what went wrong from the pictures. THIS time, I'm going to get someone to help me put the pumps together. Another set of hands would make the job a lot easier. I thought about using a vise the last time but was afraid of doing more damage than good as I'm sure the pumps were never meant to be squeezed.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 12:11
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#30
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

Owen_Dyneto
See User information
Based on some unsophisticated measurements I don't think you'll find that the available vacuum boost from a double action pump is any greater than that which the oil pump-driven vacuum pump provides.

Posted on: 2015/9/15 13:25
 Top  Print 
 




« 1 2 (3) 4 5 »




Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
DSC01353
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved