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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#21
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Packard Don
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Without the overdrive connected but with the rear end ratio that the overdrive Packard used, you probably would not want to drive much beyond 50 mph.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 2:26
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#22
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1941Packard
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Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
Without the overdrive connected but with the rear end ratio that the overdrive Packard used, you probably would not want to drive much beyond 50 mph.


Yup. I'm aware of that as rear end ratios are mentioned in the manual.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 12:16
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#23
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
What would be interesting would be if someone with both solenoids at hand could compare R9 and R11 solenoid plungers to see if any parts would interchange. I doubt they would but if that were a possibility it would open up some repair or conversion options. If an R11 repro that comes in 6 and 12v versions could also be compared to see if the r9 plunger could be swapped it would be even better.

Here are differences between solenoid plunger length as well as the bare R9 plunger assy with the ball on the end (ball is almost hidden at the end of plunger in the photo). If the repro solenoid plunger also had a similar travel and a screw on end cap that could remove so the inner shaft with the different lengths could be swapped it would open up lots of possibilities.

Note: I believe BDeB posted the R11 photo some years ago but am not sure if the photo shows the plunger extended or not. If not then it would extend around 1/2 inch to bring the extended measurement to about 1 1/2" so overall length of the R11 extended would be roughly 3/4" shorter than the R9.


For something so simple...It would seem that even if the plungers aren't interchangeable, you could just modify/weld on to the plunger to get the correct length. But even the R11s in 12 volt look hard to come by at the moment, and I'd hate to spend $300 on something just to start welding on it.

Is it not possible to just engage and disengage the overdrive manually? I mean, it's only a plunger going in and out. Obviously you'll lose features such as downshifting if you floor it, automatic engaging/disengaging... but would simplify getting it going.. I'm sure there are other, simpler electronic versions of plungers as well that would just have to be adapted to the case to fit.

What happens if you forget to disengage overdrive as your speed drops?

Posted on: 2023/11/28 12:21
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#24
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Packard Don
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One it’s enabled, it engages and disengages automatically, hence the wiring to the transmission and the governor. Also, there is a kick-down switch that knocks if off momentarily when the pedal is pressed to the floor for passing.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 13:22
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#25
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Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
One it’s enabled, it engages and disengages automatically, hence the wiring to the transmission and the governor. Also, there is a kick-down switch that knocks if off momentarily when the pedal is pressed to the floor for passing.


I know that...That's why I was asking what would happen if the plunger left engaged if the overdrive was a completely manual operation. Either by use of a cable mechanism or electronic linear actuator/plunger.

Posted on: 2023/11/28 13:25
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#26
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Ross
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Since the OD is an add on at the back of the normal trans, if you leave the plunger in you will get the overdrive ratio applied to all of your forward gears. First will feel like second, second almost like high, and high will be .72.

A very expensive problem occurs if you try to back up with the OD engaged as the overrunning clutch will go to war with the shifter pawl and one of them will lose. There is an interlock inside the trans to prevent that but in well worn units someone can force it into reverse. When you go to back up chances are the engine will just stall.

Do you still have the overdrive relay hanging somewhere on your firewall? It looks like a voltage regulator but has 6 terminals. It is really not that hard to make the whole thing work and it is very cool, practical and enjoyable when it does.

Posted on: 2023/11/29 7:38
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#27
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1941Packard
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Quote:

Ross wrote:
Since the OD is an add on at the back of the normal trans, if you leave the plunger in you will get the overdrive ratio applied to all of your forward gears. First will feel like second, second almost like high, and high will be .72.

A very expensive problem occurs if you try to back up with the OD engaged as the overrunning clutch will go to war with the shifter pawl and one of them will lose. There is an interlock inside the trans to prevent that but in well worn units someone can force it into reverse. When you go to back up chances are the engine will just stall.

Do you still have the overdrive relay hanging somewhere on your firewall? It looks like a voltage regulator but has 6 terminals. It is really not that hard to make the whole thing work and it is very cool, practical and enjoyable when it does.


Ok Thank you for explaining! Makes perfect sense. I do not have the overdrive relay.. I'll double check the trunk though in case it's stashed in there..

Because my wiring is totally gone and so many parts missing, my plan is to run 12 volts.. I'm not sure how that would further complicate trying to use the original overdrive electronics even if I piece it back together..

Posted on: 2023/11/29 12:54
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#28
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Packard Don
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Most of the overdrive electrical components are for 6v so to switch to 12v would require a custom solenoid (if such a thing is even possible) and a full rework of the relay's innards. I governor shouldn't care about the voltage but I'm not sure. You might be able to get by with some kind of voltage step-down device but it seems to me that it would be easier to keep it 6v, then use a step-up for any 12v items you may want to add.

Reproduction wiring harnesses are available and, as 6 requires a larger gauge wire than 12v, you could always do it stock now, then make the switchover later without having to make changes to the harness.

Posted on: 2023/11/29 13:31
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#29
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Quote:

Packard Don wrote:
Most of the overdrive electrical components are for 6v so to switch to 12v would require a custom solenoid (if such a thing is even possible) and a full rework of the relay's innards. I governor shouldn't care about the voltage but I'm not sure. You might be able to get by with some kind of voltage step-down device but it seems to me that it would be easier to keep it 6v, then use a step-up for any 12v items you may want to add.

Reproduction wiring harnesses are available and, as 6 requires a larger gauge wire than 12v, you could always do it stock now, then make the switchover later without having to make changes to the harness.


Yea, I'm just not sure I want to spend $2-$3k+ to try to rebuild the original 6 volt setup. I imagine a modern relay could take the place of the original one, but I'd have to see one apart to figure out how it worked, being it has several wires going to it according to the diagram.

Anyways..just thinking outloud..

Posted on: 2023/11/29 14:18
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Re: 1941 120 3 Speed with Overdrive Wiring?
#30
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Packard Don
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I'm just not sure I want to spend $2-$3k+ to try to rebuild the original 6 volt setup. I imagine a modern relay could take the place of the original one,


You would probably have to spend the money anyway even if converting along with the costs of rebuilding components to work with 12v. As for the relay, I'm that can be redone using modern components in the original case. There is plenty of room for that.

Posted on: 2023/11/29 14:24
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