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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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Thanks for all the comments everyone. I've been thinking about the situation all day while I've been out of town.

I'm surprised by the consensus to use an electric pump. I just removed the electric pump because I was concerned it was clogged and/or restricting flow. But it seems many people run them, so perhaps I will put mine back on.

The pump I pulled from the car is the solenoid type, 12V (the car is converted to 12V). The sound it makes is annoying. For those of you who run an electric pump, are you placing it before the fuel pump (by the tank) or after the fuel pump? Do you have the electric pump running all the time?

I will still pull the fuel pump because we did not have the arm pushed down before we tightened the screws on the diaphragm. I had tested the pump afterwards and it appeared to have sufficient suction, so I'm not sure what is going on.

While I have the pump off I will blow air through the hard line back to the tank to make sure it is clear. The tank appears to have been restored when the car was restored. There is no evidence (so far) of junk in the tank, based on what I'm seeing in the clear filter. If I put the electric pump back on I will remove the clear filter.

I still need to make a small gravity tank so that I can check the fuel pressure after the pump and the flow rate. Time is ticking....I have 4 days to figure this out before the last big show this weekend.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2023/8/14 20:17
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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Alright I had a few minutes tonight, so I removed the fuel pump and redid the diaphragm. We had missed the step where we were supposed to preload the diaphragm before tightening it down.

The fuel bowl had some debris in it, so it appears to be working at catching particles. The screen was clean as far as I could tell.

I double checked to make sure that the preload was correct, and reinstalled.

I ran the starter for about 5 seconds and the bowl filled about 3/4 of the way up. I take that as a good sign. It seems the suction is working as it should. The car started fine and didn't seem to have a fuel delivery problem in the shop.

The real test will be when I do another road test. That's a production because I need to be sure my wife can follow me in the truck....in case I need to tow it back home. The fuel always seems to do fine when the car is stationary...idling, revving, etc. But as soon as the car is under power it really seems to struggle.

I'm also noticing the idle speed seems really high. I was able to borrow a tachometer from a friend, and sure enough the idle RPM's were hovering around 1K. The Service Manual says that the idle speed adjustment is made at this screw, but the screw isn't even touching anything. The part the screw is supposed to touch is connected to the choke. I'm not sure where I need to make adjustments to get the idle speed where it should be. I'm assuming it's messing with my timing settings as well.

-Kevin

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jpg  Debris in fuel bowl.jpg (85.38 KB)
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jpg  Quickly filling up.jpg (112.27 KB)
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jpg  Idle speed way off.jpg (138.50 KB)
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jpg  Idle adjustment.jpg (105.38 KB)
1059_64db03d52287d.jpg 1024X768 px

Posted on: 2023/8/14 23:54
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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I would replace all of the screw type hose clamps with the flat, spring style clamps. The screw type clamps have to be exactly the right size to do a good job on small diameter installations. The clamp in the picture appears to be too large. The spring type clamps are included with some types of aftermarket fuel filters.

The engine should idle at about 400 RPM or a little less. Idle speed is a factor in setting timing.

The idle stop screw should be resting on something anytime the engine is supposed to be at idle. The choke/fast idle linkage may be improperly assembled or missing a part.

Posted on: 2023/8/15 7:22
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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kevinpackard
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I did a quick test drive tonight of about a mile and the car didn't die, so that's good. But it's still not running totally smoothly. It seems to struggle a bit at speed (35mph and up) and the idle is definitely not smooth.

I had gone through all the timing before, but I may need to do it again. Something isn't correct....too much stumbling at idle. The engine shakes a bit and I can hear it in the exhaust.

Meanwhile, I am continuing to work on getting the body parts put back together. Sidemounts on, front bumper on, and the remaining chrome trim. Still working on fishing wires up into the headlight housings.

-Kevin

Attach file:



jpg  Slowly coming back together.jpg (123.59 KB)
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Posted on: 2023/8/15 23:57
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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If the engine is getting enough fuel to move the car 30 MPH, it should be getting enough to idle properly.

The poor idle suggests carburetor or ignition issues or perhaps an air leak in the intake.

Timing needs to be set according to the manual, with the engine idling smoothly at the correct speed.

A number of problems can affect the distributor and carburetor that affect how the engine runs.

Valve clearance needs to be set properly and all valves need to seat properly for the engine to run as it should.

Any issue with the ignition points can make an otherwise perfect engine run very poorly. If you have a dual point distributor, it needs to be set up correctly.

Don't overlook things like plug wires being out of order, or cross-firing, or suppression type plug wires that look like new yet do not function properly.

Posted on: 2023/8/16 7:53
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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BigKev
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Also, check your vacuum advance.

Posted on: 2023/8/16 8:41
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Home away from home
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kevinpackard
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My issue is the manual doesn't specify what the correct idle speed is. And I haven't really figured out how the speed is adjusted on the carb. All the pictures I've seen of Super 8 carbs look very similar to how mine is set up, so I don't think it's missing any pieces.

I realized before I drove last night that I had forgotten to hook up the vacuum lines to the fuel pump. Once I did that the idle dropped from 1000 to about 600, but I can't seem to adjust it from there. Still runs rough.

The timing gun was flashing so fast it was nearly solid. I couldn't get a reading from it.

Kev - I'll check the vac advance again. I checked it before and it was fine, but that may have changed.

-Kevin

Posted on: 2023/8/16 9:44
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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BigKev
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I was never able to get a modern inductive timing light to work. It would flash like crazy, even if it wasn't hooked up to any of the plug wires. Figured it must have been the RF bled from the unsuppressed plug wires.

I ended up using having to use an old-school timing light that plugs in line with the spark plug wire.

Posted on: 2023/8/16 11:18
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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TxGoat
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The engine should idle smoothly at 350 to 400 RPM.


When your engine is idling with the choke fully open and the hand throttle cable in the off position, the idle speed screw should be resting on something, usually a fast idle cam. At idle with the choke wide open, the screw should rest on the lowest step or lowest portion of the fast idle cam.

With the engine off, moving the choke plate by hand should cause the fast ilde cam to move.

Your idle speed screw doesn't appear to be in contact with anything in the photo.

Posted on: 2023/8/16 13:45
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
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BigKev
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If your carb is anything like the Carter carb on my '54, some adjustments have to be made by bending some of the linkage rods on the carb itself.

Also it is possible the throttle linkage may need to be adjusted.

Posted on: 2023/8/16 14:39
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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