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« 1 2 3 (4) 5 »

Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#31
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PackardV8
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I have one identicle to the tool pictured above. Great tool to have and i've used mine on other applications such as OHC engines with minor and ez to make add on modification.
Great tool to have even for those that don't have flat head engines. They're fairly commonplace at swap meets and eBay and i believe i caught a glimps of one at a local parts store one day in-package, new, hanging on the rack in the show room. I think it was a Lisle brand.

Posted on: 2010/6/28 9:33
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#32
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PackardV8
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There is also a companion tool to the spring compressor. I only know by name as a "pea-shooter". It's for installing the valve keepers. Can post a pic of mine if needed.

Posted on: 2010/6/28 9:35
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#33
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JWL
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A large C-clamp can easily be modified to act as a valve spring compressor. However, you will need to remove the manifolds for it to work. Try and get a tool like O_D recommends.

(o{I}o)

Posted on: 2010/6/28 9:38
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#34
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Tobs
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Not too much on the Packard front recently. (soccer, renault, broken leg etc had prio)
I ebay.com'd (not ebay.de) an old valve spring compressor and some tappet wrenches, and should get them here soon. I think I paid about 20$ for the valve spring compressor, -that will be one of the cheaper parts/tools of this job.
I also double checked compression on cyl 8 and verified 0 psi. I may pull the head off on thursday to see what what I find before I tow the car to Kurt's('54 pacific) garage. Will let you guys know what I see. Kurt offered to take some parts from his 288 for my 327 if I need them.
Are valves and pistons interchangaeable?

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Posted on: 2010/6/28 14:01
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#35
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Owen_Dyneto
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Are valves and pistons interchangaeable?

Not sure exactly what you mean by that. Yes, all 8 intake valves are the same and all 8 exhaust valves are the same, but intakes and exhausts have different dimensions and face angles, and are of different alloys. All 8 pistons are nominally the same prior to installation. But as these parts are subject to wear, they get wear patterns that make them individually different, so best practice is you don't comingle them even if they had the same original part numbers.

Therefore when reusing existing parts like pistons and valves in the same engine from which they were removed, they should always be reinstalled in the same original positions. Pistons are normally numbered 1 thru 8, and a good engine rebuilder will renumber new ones in the same order. If you remove more than 1 valve, you should make a stick with numbered holes to insure you get the same valve back into it's original position.

Posted on: 2010/6/28 14:44
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#36
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Tobs
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Kurt mentioned that we could pull some parts from his 288 to put in my 327. That's what I was referring to. The idea sounds pretty suspicious to me. If I go through the trouble of taking the whole thing apart, I might as well get new or nos parts where they are needed. Would you re-use pistons or valves from one engine in another? We're not in Cuba here...

Posted on: 2010/6/28 15:34
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#37
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Owen_Dyneto
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I surely wouldn't. But let's see what you find when you pull the head and examine.

Posted on: 2010/6/28 15:46
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#38
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PackardV8
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Keep the wrist pins of ANY pistons u get with their corresponding pistons AND inserted into the piston the same way they came out.
THere is alot that one can get away with overhauling an engine. However, wrist pin fit, crank/rod bearing fit/condition and valve seating are the absolute critical issues of any engine overhaul.

I've built several engines over the years with used pistons for my own use and local use that i was able to keep up with the engine over many years and miles. MOST important is wrist pin and crank bearings and valve seating is CRITICAL! The rest of it can be rather sloppy by most commonly accepted standards and still produce a great long life reliable and powerful engine.

If u farm out the valve seating be sure to test the work that hte vendor did THOUROUGHLY before assembly. I've seen valve seating from highly reputable shops that was unaccpeptable. It is VERY common to happen.

Posted on: 2010/6/28 16:29
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#39
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Tobs
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So, I finally got some time and a friend to help me pull the cyl head this evening. Everything came apart easily (with a half inch drive breaker bar) no studs broken, yay. So things don't look all too bad in there. The rear side of the head gasket looked a little suspicious (could be blown), and cyl 8 looks to have broken the top of the piston above the ring near the intake valve. Exhaust valve on cyl 8 also seems to be hanging open, either from a piece of ring or piston.
Good news is that the cyl walls are looking pretty good, no scoreing or even a bad ridge to be seen.
So it seems that #8 will have to get a new pistion, and the other cyls can just get a ring job. There was hardly any ridge, so I don't think over-bore will be needed.
Next step is to remove oil pan, cyl 8 and the valves from that cylinder. Perhaps a valve lapping while everything is apart also.
Attached a bunch of pictures.
Can somebody say what happened to the intake valve in cyl 4? It is pitted, lookes either rust damage from a sitting engine, or detonation damage? Should this be replaced also?
Looking forward to diging deeper and someday driving again.

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Posted on: 2010/7/6 15:26
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Re: Valve problems on the way home today.
#40
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Owen_Dyneto
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Several places on the headgasket look like they were pretty marginal and might have required attention sooner rather than later. It's good that the ridge is small, but you'll have to use a ridge-remover anyway to cut the ridge and get the pistons out, otherwise the rings will catch on the underside and probably break the piston lands if much force is applied, and of course it would have to be removed anyway to satisfactorily install pistons with new rings.

You can easily buy one replacement piston and if you go that route I'd advise to have it weight-checked against the others and matched to within a few grams. Also, in view of the failure of one of the piston lands, you could consider all new ones but at the very least if you use the 7 old ones, have them taken to a shop that can do a dye-penetrant check and careful inspection for cracks or impending cracks. If you chose to use the 7 old pistons, also check the condition of the ring grooves for wear - this might also lead you to buying a full set of new pistons. Kanter's has really excellent autothermic strut pistons of OEM design for that engine. Either way, consider rebushing the rod small end for wrist pins, and perhaps even replacing the rod bearing inserts after examination and measurement of clearances and crank dimensions. Assuming cylinder taper is minimal (less than 0.007" or so) so you don't require boring, fitting new rings will necessitate honing the cylinder walls - read up on it a bit and keep in mind the necessity of keeping the grit and abrasive out of the engine internals, stuff rags down the bores, and do a SUPER clean up afterwards. From you photos I'd say the engine was a bit of an oil-pumper so re-ringing should be seriously considered.

Surely while the head is off I'd at a very minimum hand lap the valves, but better yet remove them, check the guides, and have the seats power ground and the valve faces refinished (assuming there is enough thickness remaining). If not, Egge valves are the standard today and excellent.

As I'm sure others on this site have, I've done this job quite a few times - we used to call is an engine "semi-overhaul" back in the days when we never had the $ to do a more complete job. Always feel free to email or PM me if you desire.

Posted on: 2010/7/6 18:18
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