Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

I would have to look at one of my pumps to thoroughly refressh my memmory but the RECESS is necessary for the HOLE IN THE RECESSS to have ANY elemination of hydraulic lock effect as BH explained above. This applies ONLY to the SECOND generation pump.

Let me state it a second way:

IF the hole existed with NO recess then the hole MITE line up with the wall of the bore in the pump (depending on assembly and vibration) and thus rendered useless to prevent hydraulic lock.

BH wrote:
"Of course, that hole is not needed (nor should it be attempted) with the a relief valve bore that's open to the crankcase - even with sump tube."

YES!!! YES!!! Very good point. A point that had never occured to me before.

Just for more data points on oil relief valve sticking open, I googled for the Olds varient and found this:

http://www.oldspower.com/vb/showthread.php?t=50373

Apparently, the Olds relief sticking open on 350 & 455 (same pump design) is very rare. In the case cited, the problem was traced to a distributor-to-pump driveshaft that is too long and gets bound when the distributor is tightened down. This caused the drive gear to wear into the inside of the bottom plate, releasing metal flakes which hung the relief valve open at high rpm, i.e. high pressure.

I don't think there is a similiar problem on the original Packard V-8 setup. I know there is ample clearance on the Olds pump adapter kit that I had made and no doubt Jack's version is OK too, but it would be something to check upon assembly.

Craig

Yes, when the OLds conversion is installed it is a good idea to grasp the drive shaft (BETWEEN PUMP AND DISTRIBUTOR) to move it up and down alittle bit to be sure that there IS some up and down play in the intermediate shaft. IT also indicates good alignment of pump to distributor.


As a side note:

The Olds pressure relief sliding valve EXTENDS into the discharge port cavity of the Olds pump. BUT the Packard V8 valve stops at a reduction of the bore and does NOT stick out into the discharge port like the Olds pump does.

I'm not sure why Olds designed it that way and i'm not sure if there is any FUNCTIONAL advantage or not. Just havn't given it much thot. Easier for Olds to manufacture that way and probably the only reason. But it does provide NEGLIGIBLE resistence to the oil.

My personal opinion based on my experience is to definately convert to the Olds pump.

Does anyone have a surplus second design oil pump? I'd like one to photographically document the internal differences side by side with the first design.

In fact, if anyone has a spare Hash pump, I'd do a photo essay of all the OEM pumps plus the Olds pump side by side and post it here for reference.

jack vines

I have read most of the posts, l also have the packard int., redesigned pump, also read about the olds pump problem.

Now what to do, olds or packard int. pump. i have taken apart the packard oil pumps, and have seen where the gears worn into the bottom plate. Why is no shim put in to keep gears off the plate??

But what oil pump did packard use in the 25,000 mile test??

If l use the olds pump, i will go full flow, but, i will keep it, in line with the oil filter. Unless i get you can't,, My dad put a luber finer filter in line. My dad was highly, anti gm, so i doubt i will put a gm pump on his engine.

What are people doing about wipers?,, anyone know of a 12v vacume pump?. Which packard should of made.. or went electric.

rik

Jack.I may have a surplus 2nd generation oil pump.I have a pretty late model 56 Patrician (4271).Shortly after I purchased the car (50,350 miles), I got the dreaded lifter noise as I was going down the highway at 60 mph.I purchased a third generation oil pump from Mike Dulinski and sent it to Bob Aller for a rebuild.Put it in the car and the problem was solved.It has been quiet ever since.Although it retains the vacuum booster for the wipers, I lost that because of the check valve issue.They seem to fail quite often.When they do, your car acts like a mosquito control van.The clouds of smoke were so thick I could not see the car behind me.Replaced the check valve and it failed again about a month later.I finally gave up and plugged up the hose with a a small stick I found by the side of the road.Issue solved but I no longer have the the extra vacuum boost.

What are people doing about wipers?,, anyone know of a 12v vacume pump?. Which packard should of made.. or went electric.

Several have converted the wipers to electric using a setup made by Newport engineeringhttp://www.newportwipers.com/ Downside to that conversion is the wiper washer co-ordinator setup no longer mounts or works.

The mid 50's Chevy electric motor is an option that will work with the co-ordinator but those are expensive and good used getting a bit hard to find.

Several places sell 12v vacuum pumps designed for power brake use. Haven't seen a smaller one anywhere just for the wipers. Some have reverted back to the dual action fuel pump setup and used a Ford unit originally spec'd for Thunderbirds. One of our Australian friends added an alternator with integral vacuum booster pump as was used on some diesel engined vehicles. There are some listed for American sold vehicles.

riki Quote:

Get the adapter kit from Jack Vines. Get the MELLING oil pump from AutoZone or OReillys (Olds 350/455 application either standard or high volume as required). I presume you've seen the full flow conversation pictures on my website. Several guys have done this and it works great.

As for the wiper motor, use the Newport electric conversion as Howard described and also pictured on my website.

Craig

Thanks, everyone, i looked at wiper motor,,will get one,,i did buy a 55-56 chev wiper motor in the 80s,,they were 250.00 back then,,used!!..