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R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
#1
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steve828
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1954 Clipper, two door club sedan 327ci,165hp L8. Up until just recently the R11 overdrive was engaging fine with the kick-down. Then, the fuse blew on the relay in the engine compartment. I installed another fuse, and the O/D engaged fine a few times until the new fuse blew. I installed a second new fuse, it didn't blow, but now the O/D wont electrically engage at all. I will check out all my electrical connections. If they are ok, should I start by replacing the relay? Then progress to the solenoid itself?
Thanks for your thoughts.

Posted on: 2014/10/4 12:19
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
#2
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HH56
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I don't think changing the relay would be the first thing to do -- unless the contacts inside have somehow shorted to ground. The coil and command circuitry is fed from the ign switch via separate feed and may or may not be fused. It is possible the coil or a switch has failed but shouldn't be the cause of the fuse on relay blowing. You can see if the relay is activating by turning the key on and grounding the lead coming from kickdow switch. You should hear the relay coming in and bringing the solenoid in also. If you hear the relay but no solenoid then move to the solenoid part of the circuit.

The relay mounted fuse only protects the wire to solenoid and the solenoid coils so I'd check very carefully for a short in the wire going to solenoid that might be vibrating against the frame or have opened. If there was a short in the wire the fuse would blow and would explain one of the symptoms. If the wire shorted and burned open that might also explain the fuse and no operation.

If the wire is OK, also check the solenoid pull in coil disconnect contact inside the solenoid. That contact was a service item on the R9 and I think it is on R11s also. It can fail so a possibility is If the solenoid pull in contact stuck or welded and could not disconnect the pull in coil, the fuse would also blow but with fuse replacements, eventually the pull in coil could burn out and solenoid would no longer engage. With a fuse blowing, a somewhat less likely problem but also possible is the contact burned & now cannot close the circuit so the pull in coil can work.

Here is a composite schematic--54 from wiring diagram and the complete R11. The original R11 schematic showed all the internal relay contacts but had a different lockout switch arrangement. That sw was in the power side under the dash. I revised this schematic slightly to show how the 51-4 changed when they moved the lockout switch to side of OD and inserted it in the ground side. Other than a couple of wire colors and the lockout sw position, everything else is identical from the earlier schematic.

Attach file:



jpg  (72.57 KB)
209_54303fe90bb0e.jpg 760X1150 px

Posted on: 2014/10/4 13:23
Howard
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
#3
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steve828
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Howard,
All I can say is WOW! You are so over the top with expertise and information. That is wonderful, THANK YOU for your all your time and consideration in that reply.

Well, by way of follow up, I discovered a section of 60-year-old bare wire with missing insulation leading to the lockout switch located just aft of the solenoid on my R11 O/D. I got under there with some shrink tubing and re-insulated both leads to the lockout switch. That seems to have done the trick!

One more thing. When I fully depress my clutch pedal, I get an intermittent clicking sound with no particular interval or rhythm to it (source of sound unknown). It sounds electrical in nature, but difficult to tell sitting inside the car. When I release the clutch pedal even a small amount, the 'clicking' sound stops. This has been happening on and off for a long time now. Any thoughts?

Posted on: 2014/10/4 18:50
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
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steve828
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Howard,

By the way, the fuse on my O/D relay in the engine compartment came to me as a 20AMP fuse when I purchased the car. The schematic you sent me shows a 30AMP fuse. Guess I better go get a 30AMP fuse, huh!?

Thanks Again! I learn something new every day thanks to you and guys like you!

Warren

Posted on: 2014/10/4 18:55
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
#5
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HH56
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Hard to say on the sound but if only when clutch depressed one possibility is the throwout bearing. If it is more of a metallic sound maybe something in the linkage moves so shaking makes it hit something. Can't think of anything electrical clutch related unless there is a wire being moved and shorted causing a circuit breaker to cycle. Probably not very likely because I think you would see something electrical cutting on and off if that were the cause. There are some wires close to the pedal/linkage area and if no lights are on maybe you wouldn't see anything obvious if a CB cycled.

On the fuse, yes a 30 amp would be proper. The pull in coil has a large surge current so 20 amp is marginal. If the wire you found bare is the one I think it is then possibly it was intermittently grounding and bringing in the relay rapidly so the solenoid was trying to come in and drop out or chatter. Fuses hate that.

If the fuse was still good but the OD didn't work, am a little concerned that particular bare wire may not be the whole problem unless it was not making good contact at one of the terminals. In combination with the wrong fuse will keep fingers crossed the issue is resolved.

Posted on: 2014/10/4 20:17
Howard
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
#6
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steve828
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Howard,

I will try the 30A fuse for sure. Also, the small brass connector plugs at the ends of the wires to the lockout switch did not seem very securely seated, and actually seemed kind of loose when I removed them to work on the insulation. I will get back to you again when I change to the 30A fuse.

Thanks again, Warren

Posted on: 2014/10/4 20:22
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Re: R11 O/D Fails to Electrically Engage
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Fish'n Jim
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A few words on electrical safety:
Anytime a preventive safety device like a fuse blows or circuit breaker trips, it's due to reaction to a fault condition. In this case, overamping. It is an indicator and warning that a non-normal condition (fault) caused it. Good practice is the fault(s) needs to be found and corrected before re-energizing the circuit.
Simply replacing a blown fuse, resetting, or bypassing, in a faulty circuit has consequences, like experienced, and further damage or injury can/will occur. That's what the fuse is there for, to protect the down line equipment from overload.
Always check the circuit and correct the fault before you re-install a fuse or reset a breaker to make sure it's not going to just blow/trip again and cause further damage. (You're life may depend on it)

As good as this forum is a source of info and suggestions what/where to look for, it's impractical for diagnosis.

Posted on: 2014/10/4 21:04
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