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Fuel Pump Leaking
#1
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Jim L. in OR
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Hi all,

I've got a question about fuel pumps for the V8s. As some of you may remember I bought my 1955 Packard Patrician through the suggestions of a member Portlandon in 2010. One of the things I did at the time was rebuild the fuel pump as the car hadn't been driven since 1985. I bought a kit from a supplier recommended by people here, though for the life of me I can't remember who or the name of the supplier. At any event, the kit was supposed to be made from Ethanol resistant parts.

The last couple of weeks when I've been driving the car I have noticed a sort of non-rhythmic stumble when travelling at a steady speed. It disappears when I press down on the pedal or release it. As soon as I maintain a steady speed, the stumble is back.

I last drove the car three days ago and today I raised the hood to see what I could see. What I found was gas pooling around the ridge of the pump. I would have thought that it would have evaporated by now but evidently the "pool" is being replenished even with the engine off. I've attached a picture that I hope will show the gas on the pump. All the screws I've been able to reach are tight.

Help please!

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Posted on: 2015/9/2 19:19
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#2
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Jim L. in OR
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I guess I forgot to ask the question.
First, is 5 years the approximate life span of a mechanical pump these days; Second, how after three days can there still be gasoline, or what I presume is gasoline in that ring around the pump - is it wicking from someplace?

When I first got the car and figured out why it hadn't been able to start in 25 years (shorted ignition switch and blown Ballast Resistor) it would roar into life so fast I think it almost could be started on the switch. After the carb rebuild, if the car has sat for any length of time, it takes a while to get gas to the carb. At least that's all I can think of.

My main concern though is could that leakage on the pump be the reason I'm getting this "stuttering" on steady throttle?

Any thoughts would be very much appreciated.

Jim

Posted on: 2015/9/3 3:04
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#3
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Ross
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I am getting much longer than 5 years out of my fuel pumps, but I never use any fuel additives.

Why don't you run the car a few minutes and observe the pump. I am guessing that is not gas as it would not rest there for 3 days, it would evaporate. The only way for gas to get there would be if it were coming out the vent on the neck of the pump. You will see and smell that pretty quick. I see evidence of oil leakage in the vicinity of the pump, running down the engine block.

On the Rochester carbs, the stuttering you describe can easily come from a very small piece of dirt in one of the passages in the throttle plate.

Posted on: 2015/9/3 6:31
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#4
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Owen_Dyneto
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A properly rebuilt mechanical fuel pump should be good for 50,000 miles and probably much more. I just replaced the pump on my '34 Packard, it was rebuilt and installed 23 years ago and was still functioning satisfactorily and, as I had a fresh rebuilt on the shelf, I replaced it just as a precautionary measure. It's seen nothing but 10% ethanol gas since it was mandated here and the only additive I use is some 2-cycle oil for winter layup. The rebuilds were done by Gould.

Posted on: 2015/9/3 7:49
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#5
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Jim L. in OR
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Thank you Ross for the quick response. I really appreciate it.

This afternoon, I wiped down the pump and the surrounding area as best I could and then started the engine - with my usual results which manifested themselves in the pump being as clean and dry as it was before I started the engine. Not a trace of gas or anything else. Just to be sure, I then stuck my nose in the Lawn Mower's gas tank which was basically empty and then the rag I wiped the pump down with. The rag didn't smell like gasoline. As a matter of fact it didn't smell like anything except for a slight hint of motor oil. I run a 50/50 mix of coolant and the rag didn't smell like that either. It hasn't been caught in the rain or driven on a wet street for over a year so that lets out the cooling system and splashes of street surface water. It's like taking your kid to the doctor and having all his symptoms vanish as he walks into the doctor's office.

My job for tomorrow will be to take a very close look at the Throttle Passages to see if I can find any likely suspects such as you describe and I'll report back.

Thank you once again, Ross

Jim

Posted on: 2015/9/3 19:43
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#6
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Jim L. in OR
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I thank you for your fast response, Owen- I really appreciate it.

23 years is good for a freshly minted pump let alone a re-man.

As for additives, I haven't used any of any kind after I added a can of "Transmission Stop Leak" in my '60 Imperial back in the early 70's and promptly lost Reverse.

I just don't trust them.

Thanks again, Owen. I love your '34 as I think they were the most beautiful car of the era before streamlining took hold in 1935.

Jim

Posted on: 2015/9/3 19:51
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#7
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Duane Gunn
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I have owned my 1955 Clipper Custom for over 17 years and for the last 15 years I have used a Chrysler fuel pump. I have the 352 V8. It bolts right in and I have over 50 thousand miles on it. I am not getting my car judged. I want it to be reliable enough so my wife can drive it without worries. I have driven the Clipper from Phoenix to Los Angelos quite a few times. I still have problems with the 'bad' gas and use an electric fuel pump when it is starving for gas, like when it's over 100F and I am doing over 70 mph. In the winter I can cruise over 75 mph and don't use my electric fuel pump.

Carquest Master M fuel pump #6866, which fits a Chrysler 318 early 70s, bolts right in. I'm sure you can take this number to any auto parts store and they can cross reference it. Check the Packard Parts X-Ref on this sight. There are other fuel pumps there too.

When I got my car it had a fuel pump from a Pugeot. So I bought a brand new Packard rebuilt fuel pump and after it was installed it started leaking. So I knew I needed something else. I still have the Puegeot fuel pump, somewhere. I also like the lifetime warranty and that it cost me less than $15 for the new Chrysler fuel pump, at least 15 years ago.

Posted on: 2015/9/3 22:55
1955 Clipper Custom
1940 160 Touring Sedan
1953 Patrician
1948 Super 8 Limo
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#8
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Jim L. in OR
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Hi Duane,

Thank you very much for sharing your past with Packards & Fuel Pumps. It never ceases to amaze me the number of parts that will mix and match on cars you'd never think of. I have to say that in spite of all the other combinations I've heard about, I would have never dreamed that you could put a Peugeot Pump on a Packard!

One of the other combos I've heard here is that a Ford fuel pump with a vacuum side like the pre V8 cars will fit. I've been doing a web search and have the candidates down to two. The benefit of these is of course you can connect the vacuum section into the wipers so that under hard acceleration your wipers won't stall out on you. Of course I'm sure no one here would ever "Play Bullitt" in the rain with their Packard, but. you never know if you'll run into a pack of rampaging - and hungry - Zombies!

The Hudson and Nash cars that used the (I think) 320 Packard V8 used a combo pump as they were still using vacuum motors for their wipers.

That aside, it's great to know yet another fuel pump that will keep our cars on the road where they belong.

Thanks again,

Jim

Posted on: 2015/9/3 23:20
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#9
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Owen_Dyneto
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The Hudson and Nash cars that used the (I think) 320 Packard V8 used a combo pump as they were still using vacuum motors for their wipers.

Packard was also using vacuum wipers; the difference is that the Packard vacuum booster pump was in the oil pan driven by the oil pump like Cadillac & Buick. Hence Packard only needed a single action fuel pump.

Jim L., thanks for the nice words about my '34 1100. Here's a fairly recent photo taken by Stuart Blond just after getting caught in the rain at a club outing; some sympathetic restoration but still much originality including paint on the body tub.

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Posted on: 2015/9/4 8:10
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Re: Fuel Pump Leaking
#10
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Jim L. in OR
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This is a little off topic but....

As regards to the Windshield Wipers, after I bought a new WW motor from Max Merritt Packard, my '55 Pat has had very few issues other than the WW slowing after stomping on the accelerator.

To handle that, I found a small vacuum can in one of the boxes of parts that came with the '55 or the '51 200 Deluxe. The vacuum check valve proved out good so I hooked it into the line between the vacuum T and the vacuum motor and found much to my delight, that the slowing under even very hard acceleration was pretty much gone.

For now it is attached to the heater box by one of the heater box's screws.

Here are some pictures should anyone want to try it.

Thank you Owen for your help with this and other things that have come up in the past.

Thanks also for the picture of your beautiful '34.

Jim

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jpg  (151.34 KB)
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Posted on: 2015/9/4 17:42
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan
1951 200 Deluxe Touring Sedan (parts ?)
1951 Patrician Touring Sedan
1955 Patrician Touring Sedan
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