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Re: KPack
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Ken_P
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All good suggestions.

I would:

1. Check differential fluid.
2. Remove both wheels and see if the noise goes away. If it does, but one back on at a time. Try swapping the wheels.
3. If you still haven't found it, use a stethoscope, or even a long-handled screw driver, to try and narrow down on the noise.

Posted on: 5/25 10:20
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... p?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partial restoration, sold Hershey 2015
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... &order=ASC&status=&mode=0
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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Joe Wareham
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While you have the wheels off, I'd pop off the brake drums and make sure all the parts are in their proper places.

Posted on: 5/25 11:21
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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DavidPackard
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Kevin, I would be quite reluctant to stop a spinning tire with a gloved hand. Perhaps I would do that if the car was on a lift and I could easily apply friction directly on the tire thread. If you have a helper available have them put the brakes on, and then then the wheel is not spinning you hold the wheel while they slowly release the brakes (emphasis on slowly), but I think there is a better way.

I would use the brakes myself and adjust one side ‘tight’. The process would be to tighten by X clicks ( that would be the amount it takes to completely stop the wheel from spinning ), and evaluate whether the squeak is still audible. Then loosen that side X clicks and go to the other wheel. With you not part of the process of holding the wheels you’re free to investigate the location of the squeak . . . perhaps its outboard at the brake drum, or closer to the differential.

If you can pin-down which wheel makes the noise, and the noise is likely coming from the drum, then I would loosen those brakes and reevaluate. If the noise is coming from the friction surface of the brake shoes, then when running the shoes loose should alter the amplitude of the noise.

If the noise is there throughout the process of stopping one wheel at a time, then the common components would be the propeller shaft and differential. I don’t think a component covered in gear oil can produce a squeak. I’ve seen U-joints completely dry and rusted, but I can’t remember if the complaint was ‘squeaking’, or ‘thunking’ (sp) when the transmission was dropped into gear. Kevin, is there any abnormal noises then torque is first applied to the drive-line?

dp

Posted on: 5/25 11:33
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Thanks for the suggestions guys. This is the same wheel that had the warped drum, so it's possible that my problems are related to that.

The differential fluid is brand new (85W-140, extreme pressure from Valvoline), and the diff is full. It's actually slightly over full at the moment because I wanted to be sure that oil was getting to the pinion. I'm going to let out the excess here shortly. I have not done anything with the pinion seal or bearing. It's not leaking at the front of the diff, so I figured I shouldn't mess with it.

The suggestion about removing the wheels and swapping them side-side is a good one. I hate to pull the drums again, but that's something I'll probably have to do. I need to be sure that everything is still in its proper place, as Joe suggested.

I do have a stethoscope, but didn't love the idea of getting all the way under the car while everything is spinning. To my ear it sounded like it was coming from the front of the diff, but re-watching the videos it seems like the noise is in time with the rotation of the driver's wheel.

Don, when you say a brake spring dragging, are you saying that it might be weak and causing the shoe to contact the drum?

-Kevin

Posted on: 5/25 12:11
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Re: KPack
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kevinpackard
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Quote:

DavidPackard wrote:
Kevin, I would be quite reluctant to stop a spinning tire with a gloved hand. Perhaps I would do that if the car was on a lift and I could easily apply friction directly on the tire thread. If you have a helper available have them put the brakes on, and then then the wheel is not spinning you hold the wheel while they slowly release the brakes (emphasis on slowly), but I think there is a better way.

I would use the brakes myself and adjust one side ‘tight’. The process would be to tighten by X clicks ( that would be the amount it takes to completely stop the wheel from spinning ), and evaluate whether the squeak is still audible. Then loosen that side X clicks and go to the other wheel. With you not part of the process of holding the wheels you’re free to investigate the location of the squeak . . . perhaps its outboard at the brake drum, or closer to the differential.

If you can pin-down which wheel makes the noise, and the noise is likely coming from the drum, then I would loosen those brakes and reevaluate. If the noise is coming from the friction surface of the brake shoes, then when running the shoes loose should alter the amplitude of the noise.

If the noise is there throughout the process of stopping one wheel at a time, then the common components would be the propeller shaft and differential. I don’t think a component covered in gear oil can produce a squeak. I’ve seen U-joints completely dry and rusted, but I can’t remember if the complaint was ‘squeaking’, or ‘thunking’ (sp) when the transmission was dropped into gear. Kevin, is there any abnormal noises then torque is first applied to the drive-line?

dp


David - there is nothing abnormal when putting the car in gear. No clunks, shudder, or driveline vibration. I was under the car yesterday, before any test drives, taking a look at the rear u-joint and noted some fluid coming out from a couple areas. Not surprising, since this shaft really hasn't spun much for many years. I twisted out the two slotted bearing cups enough to inject some 140 oil in there in hopes that it would help lube the rest of the internals. It was at this point I realized that the two slotted bearing cups had no C-clips on them, so it's a miracle they didn't come out during my previous drives. I picked up some clips from the hardware store and popped them on for now.

I'll try your suggestion of tightening the brakes one at a time and testing.

I did loosen the driver's rear brakes two clicks yesterday before my test drive. I felt like they were grabbing too much on that side making it hard to turn. I'm not sure if maybe that made the sound louder or not.

-Kevin

Attach file:



jpg  Rear universal joint.jpg (132.45 KB)
1059_60ad3c2986ee1.jpg 1024X768 px

Posted on: 5/25 13:04
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Re: KPack
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Ken_P
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If the U-joint is bone dry and the needle bearings have rusted away, that could make a squeal too. I've seen that before, in a failed modern u-joint.

It might be worth disassembling that u-joint, and inspecting it. U-joints are pretty cheap, typically.

Posted on: 5/25 13:34
1937 120 1092 - Original survivor for driving and continued preservation.
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... p?topic_id=16514&forum=10

1937 115 1082 - Total basket case, partial restoration, sold Hershey 2015
https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... &order=ASC&status=&mode=0
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Re: KPack
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r1lark
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I'll second what Ken_P said in regard to the U-joint. That U-joint looks pretty crusty and since it has no provision for greasing, it likely could be your culprit.

How long has the car sat since it was regularly driven?

Replace (or at least disassemble/clean/inspect/grease) the u-joints now, versus having a failure on the road! Even if that doesn't eliminate the squeak, you have eliminated a potential problem 'down the road' by applying preventative maintenance.

Posted on: 5/26 6:42
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Re: KPack
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PackardDon
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Napa should have them and they were even able to supply one for my 1951 Henney-Packard! (It uses three but I had two in stock already,) Best to take it in for a matchup.

Posted on: 5/26 11:43
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Anyone have a part number for the u-joint, or do I just take it in there and have them figure it out? Parts cross reference doesn't have anything.

-Kevin

Posted on: 5/26 13:03
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Re: KPack's 1954 Panama
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kevinpackard
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Had a guy come over last night to see what he thought about the squealing. He's far more familiar with old cars than I am. He thought bearing right off the bat.

We put the car on jack stands in the back, blocked the front wheels, then put the car in drive. Then, using the parking brake cables we were able to easily choose which wheel would spin. It is 100% coming from the driver's rear wheel.

We did a 3-4 mile drive and listened to the sound. Then back up on stands to check around. The axle housing over the axle bearing was not hot at all. Barely warm if at all. After that he wasn't sure what to think. No growling, no real roughness. Just squealing.

I took it out for a test drive tonight and initially there was no noise whatsoever for the first couple miles. Then it started up and got steadily louder. I'm kind of at a loss.

On the positive side, my turn signals magically started working tonight without any intervention from me. So that's good news. If only my fuel gauge would do that now.

-Kevin

Posted on: 5/27 23:13
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