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Quote:

Most of the time non showing pictures are too large. They have to be less than 2 meg (2048K) in size. Between 50-500K is best for those with dialup to see without having a long wait for download.

Other reasons they don't show are they are not .jpg file type or they have a punctuation or other illegal character in the file name.

Dave
Within the past week, I have come upon two 1940 Packards without the thief-proof numbers. In between the < > is just blank. Is this common???

They are both jpg file types,

both file names are exatly as shown below, and both are eaisly below the 2meg size.

body number.jpg 108kb

Packjard vehicale no plate.jpg 190kb

I will try to remove the space in them and see.

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Plate

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OD,

Do you have this one for your list?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1932-Packard-Rat-Rod-Cab-Project-/261158901709?item=261158901709&pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item3cce4897cd&nma=true&si=o1TIdBx14LlMttiMIjgYr84%252BZ1w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Thanks Howard, looks like removing the spaces from the file names did it.

West Peterson said: Within the past week, I have come upon two 1940 Packards without the thief-proof numbers. In between the < > is just blank. Is this common???

West, yes, it's common but only for 1940 and as a generalization only for the early part of the year. Lots of folks have pondered it, no one really has a substantiated reason why. It's been suggested that it may be related to a possible transfer of some body stamping equipment and dies to Briggs in preparation for 1941 but that's just speculation. The only other cars I know of that have no number (they started in 1929) are the Panther Daytonas and a single 1955 car, a Clipper with an extremely low vehicle number and in this case the explanation may lie with Packard reassuming body production from Briggs with lots of resultant chaos.


There are a couple of thing rather curious about the patent plate in post #14 above, with vehicle #474-179. The plate itself doesn't appear to be anything but original, especially the style of the dealer identifying stamp and date. But the fasteners (it should be slotted sheet metal screws) have obviously been altered and the vehicle number is most curious on two accounts. First is the font, the vehicle number should be in a font similar to the date stamp and the font shown in the 474 179 was never used by Packard to my knowledge. And second is the number itself. Though 474 is in fact a 1931 body type identification, that style of vehicle number, body type + sequential production number, didn't begin until 1932. Never seen a 1931 patent plate that didn't give a vehicle number that wasn't either the motor number or a very closely related number. If there is any more history to this car and the plate, I'm all ears.

UPDATE: Well, after looking at some other patent plates, I'm even more curious and take back the comment that the 474-179 font wasn't used by Packard. Keep in mind that the date of delivery and dealer name were done locally so they could be any style, but look at the vehicle numbers on these two plates - one appears to have the same font as the plate in question above, and the other has what's typically seen. One possible conclusion is that Packard didn't adopt the body type + sequential production number style of vehicle number beginning in 1932 but actually started during the 1931 production, and with a unique font not again used. Interesting (to those of us intersted in such minutae) to say the least.

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Has anyone ever conclusively said how or when the numbers were created.

IIRC, there was a thread at one time speculating they were done when the firewalls were stamped and still flat before joining to the body. I seem to also remember a photo from somewhere showing a large "C" type device inserted thru the empty windshield opening. Looked like it was mashing the firewall between it's jaws. Was that gadget stamping the number on the line or maybe just crimping something.

If they numbered after the car was on the line maybe one of the machines broke down for a period. Rather than stop production they did without since it didn't seem to be a needed number. Doing it on the line might even explain some of the anomalies where numbers are way out of sequence -- if the ID numbers were added farther down. Seem to remember articles saying cars were taken off the line for various reasons. Maybe the sequence was messed up when they were put back on.

HH56 asked: Has anyone ever conclusively said how or when the numbers were created.

I guess you're referring to the thief-proof numbers? Lot's of conjecture and speculation, no substantiated facts. When I first asked some knowledgeable Packard folk about the thief-proof numbers perhaps 10 years ago I found they had never been an area of any serious focused study previously, and that's what made them so interesting to me.

There is no reason to conclude that the numbers were assigned and embossed in the same manner over all the years of production, though it might be so. We do know from some factory photos that in some both prewar and postwar years the numbers were present before the body shell was painted - no small surprise there but more to the point it would be nice to know if they embossed before the bodies were assembled from manufactured subassemblies. We also know reasonably conclusively that blocks of numbers were reserved for certain specific vehicles in some years. In my data collection I have several instances of consecutive vehicle numbers of the same body style with considerable difference in the thief-proof numbers, but of course we don't know that those two vehicles followed each other down the production line. I also have several instances of consecutive thief-proof numbers but no apparent correlation to vehicle numbers.

So, Owen

I'm not sure what your saying about the car? I see based on the numbers its a 1931, that I understand, and it does have a striaght eight in it. Here is a picture of it for more thoughts and position.

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