Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
44 user(s) are online (37 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 44

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 2 (3) 4 »

Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#21
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
HOWARD, I was able to edit two photos out of a video clip to kind of show you some of what my current coil looks like. Per mechanic he said the IC7SB will not fit my car due to configuration of the leads etc. Take a look at it & give me your feedback?

Attach file:



jpg  IMG-2872.jpg (137.35 KB)
224977_61ca463b1a350.jpg 1150X560 px

jpg  IMG-2873.jpg (95.37 KB)
224977_61ca4646d0422.jpg 926X372 px

Posted on: 12/27 18:03
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#22
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
That is correct -- the IC7 was suggested as an easily available test coil which you can tie wrap to something to hold it for a brief period to determine if it solves the problem. You need to extend the wire that is connecting to the bottom terminal on the inside and bring it out into the engine compt to power the coil. I mentioned that and where it connects in an earlier post.

If the coil does solve the issue then it can also be a total replacement coil but will need a different mounting method if you choose that option. A couple of options for mounting that modern style coil was also given because as you said, the coil is not the same configuration as the original because the firewall mount coils have not been made for years.

You may find an original type at one of our vendors or a vendor on ebay. Max Merritt or Kanter Auto list them but no matter where you find one, there are some caveats. IF you can find NOS you are looking at a 60 or 70 year old coil that you have no idea what kind of storage conditions it might have gone thru. As well as age, anything from freezing to extreme heat might have affected some storage container or warehouse and not many electrical items tolerate either extreme very well. You will be paying an arm and a leg for it too. Last time I remember someone buying one it was well over $200 and IIRC, closer to $300 and the buyer still reported issues when it was installed. Whether those issues were due to the new coil or still part of whatever was going on in the first place is unknown but the take from the experience is beware when buying any old electrical parts where anything -- tar or pitch surrounding the internal coil wiring in this case -- can dry out, melt, crack or turn brittle.

Some vendors also advertise rebuilt exchange coils but so far I have not found anyone who sells them describe exactly what constitutes a rebuild. IMO, at the very least a coil rebuild should require all new internals inside the old can but for some vendors a thorough cleaning qualifies as a rebuild while others may actually run a exchanged coil on a test fixture. Downside to that approach is on a fixture coils never get exposed to heat or vibration conditions they would be subjected to in a car. If no issues are found during the test, coil is considered good and gets the new coat of paint and likely goes on a shelf as a rebuilt. I suspect a fair number of the rebuilts fail again in actual use.

Posted on: 12/27 21:28
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#23
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
Thanks, Howard - will update when I have news on further results!

Posted on: 12/29 17:10
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#24
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
If it is the coil and you choose to try and use the modern IC7 style and cannot find one of the sheetmetal aftermarket brackets, here are some other photos of what I made to mount the coil in the firewall location and make it look mostly original.

Holder is made from aluminum tubing and aluminum flat stock with an insulated base to mount the bottom terminal which is made from Delrin. That terminal is connected to the new coil terminal by a short length of wire protected from vibration or chafing by heat shrink plus a thin piece of mylar between the wire and coil.

In my car the original armored cable is able to be fastened to the end of the holder and used but if you have an aftermarket ignition switch you probably no longer have the armor to worry about.

If you can find a stamped aftermarket bracket on ebay it should be a relatively easy task on your car to drill a hole in the firewall next to the coil that is large enough to insert a rubber grommet and bring the wire thru or extend the wire by several inches and bring it out one of the existing openings that is a bit farther away on either side of the coil.

Another option if you are not terribly concerned about the original look would be to fabricate a sturdy plate to cover the firewall hole and then mount the coil vertically on the plate using a universal bracket along the lines of the one shown below. A hole could also be made in the plate to bring the wire thru.

Attach file:



jpeg  coil holder.jpeg (62.02 KB)
209_61cd0512032ff.jpeg 1000X773 px

jpg  bracket.jpg (41.68 KB)
209_61cd42fe6551a.jpg 718X548 px

Posted on: 12/29 20:02
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#25
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
Thanks so much, Howard! The weather has slowed the mechanic down here from driving and testing so is running behind. It's a large garage and so juggling cars is an issue. I will forward this as always!

Posted on: 1/3 3:01
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#26
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
Howard, what is this box with yellow tape on it at bottom? See photos. the mechanic tried disconnecting this wire that comes out of this box with yellow tape on bottom edge with the numbers: 1, 2 & 3 (below voltage regulator & coil) that is also connected to the coil and is same lead that goes to distributor. Both he & I test drove it and For what ever reason it stopped the stalling! And overdrive still engages also. Just don't know what on earth we just did that worked or why??? Could you help me understand what it's for ?

Attach file:



jpg  IMG-2917.jpg (1,698.34 KB)
224977_61d8be2120961.jpg 4032X3024 px

jpg  IMG-2918.jpg (1,661.48 KB)
224977_61d8be3550662.jpg 4032X3024 px

jpg  IMG-2911.jpg (2,798.52 KB)
224977_61d8be43da52b.jpg 4032X3024 px

jpg  IMG-2910.jpg (2,197.96 KB)
224977_61d8be53c5584.jpg 4032X3024 px

jpg  IMG-2908.jpg (2,187.72 KB)
224977_61d8be5f56125.jpg 4032X3024 px

Posted on: 1/7 17:30
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#27
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
That is the overdrive relay for the R9 which is the original type overdrive unit installed in a 47. You didn't mention which wire was disconnected but I suspect it was the one on terminal 2. Other than 2 or 6, any of the others disconnected and the OD should not engage properly.

Terminal 2 is one of the wires for the ignition cutout circuit which is a signal that grounds the coil BRIEFLY and cuts the spark for an instant when kickdown is wanted or when it is desired to mechanically lock out the OD. The circuit is necessary to "kill" the engine momentarily by cutting the spark so engine torque drops and the spring in OD solenoid can retract the plunger and release a gear.

The ground starts in the solenoid via a contact which closes to ground when the solenoid is engaged and car is in OD. It comes out at solenoid terminal 6 and goes to the relay box terminal 6 and then thru a set of contacts on each relay inside the box. It comes out on terminal 2 and winds up at the coil terminal.

When kickdown is requested the kickdown switch cuts power to terminal 5 and immediately relay 1 drops out to drop the solenoid out and take the car out of OD. Relay 2 is slightly delayed so with the configuration and timing of the relays and their 3 sets of contacts involved in the cutout circuit opening or closing at intervals the ground signal to the coil is supposed to be limited to a few spark pulses so not long enough to kill the engine. Apparently one of the contacts or relays is hanging on or possibly the wire between solenoid and relay 6 is grounded. You can drive the car with the wire disconnected but In order for kickdown to work properly you will need to fix the circuit. Without the engine torque being able to reduce, the OD will not drop out when extra power is needed if trying to pass a car.

Here is a wiring diagram of the R9 OD setup.

Attach file:



jpg  R9 Schematic.jpg (137.72 KB)
209_61d8ceb377cab.jpg 1197X673 px

Posted on: 1/7 18:42
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#28
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

William Grosz
See User information
You might want to look at this serive bulletin

Overdrive: Ignition Cut Out
Econo-Drive, decelerating - relay adjustment

18th-20th;
(21st)

SL Vol. 16, No. 9

Posted on: 1/7 18:47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#29
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
Thank you William. I finally found the service letter from 1942 but am unsure if it will apply to my R9 over drive from 1947? Perhaps you could advise? Also the 18-20th bulliens you referenced are for 22 series cars, 1948+. Will these apply to my 21st series?

Thanks!

Jeff

Posted on: 1/7 20:19
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 


Re: 356ci Engine Stalls
#30
Quite a regular
Quite a regular

Pappy47
See User information
Excellent howard, I'll forward ASAP. Thanks, again! I believe you are correct in that terminal #2 is the one disconnected.

Jeff

Posted on: 1/7 20:21
Pappy47
 Top  Print 
 




« 1 2 (3) 4 »




Search
Recent Photos
20210619_101112.jpg (12/28/2021)
20210619_101112.jpg
executive (12/28/2021)
executive
F6A67A34-B4E9-402E-B250-BDB80... (11/06/2021)
F6A67A34-B4E9-402E-B250-BDB80...
Photo of the Day
1928 Packard Six 5-33 Sedan Limousine TF-2566 Spain
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved