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Replies to questions raised by Packard V8
#11
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Mark Buckley
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Packard V8's questions are below, in boldface:

How old is the battery (with details)????

Battery is brand new--less than 1 month old.

Has a diagnostics test been run on the generator (as per service manual).

No, I haven't done a diagnostics test

Check BODY to frame/engine ground strap.

This is a good suggestion.

Usualy after about 35 or 30 years in normal daily service nearly any vehicle will need to have ALL terminal connexions cleaned to shiny metal (no tarnish allowed).

I had the car completely rewired 3 years ago. I believe all terminals were made shiny at that time.

BTW. Check the blower motor. The shaft should turn freely and not feel sticky (other than perhaps some intermittent magnetic attraction). IF the bushings in the motor get dry or binding then the blower motor will draw excessive amperage to over come the resitence of the bad/dry bushings. And therefore diminish battery charge quickly especialy at low speeds. Therfore causing dim lites etc.

This is another excellent suggestion. I say this because when the blower motor first fires up it lets out a god-awful howl for about a minute or so. Then it settles down to a grumbling rumble. I had the original motor replaced about 4 years ago. Truth to tell right out of the box the new motor sounded as grouchy as the old one. My mechanic reported he had a hard time getting the replacement motor into the housing. He said he had to work to keep from ripping the wires loose. With this in mind I've been reluctant to check the motor and open a Pandora's Box.

Is there a quick and easy way to lubricate the motor's bushings?

Thanks,

Mark

Posted on: 2011/12/2 13:25
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Re: Gener-Nator or Powergen alternator reports?
#12
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JWL
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"Is there a quick and easy way to lubricate the motor's bushings?"

I have done this job on the non-drive end of the motor. Remove the blower motor, and carefully cut a slot in the housing. Cut just deeply enough to go through the end of the housing. Clean out the cutting as best as you can. Place a couple of drops of oil in the slot. It doesn't take much, just enough to wet the end of the shaft. Then clean off the outside and seal with silicone. You may also be able to get some oil on the fan side of the motor by removing the fan and dropping a small bit of oil around the shaft where it comes out of the motor housing. It worked for me. Maybe others here have suggestions from their experiences. Good luck.

(o[]o)

Posted on: 2011/12/2 15:47
We move toward
And make happen
What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: Gener-Nator or Powergen alternator reports?
#13
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PackardV8
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I'm not familiar with this particular year/model Packard so follow JW's advice above. The only comment i will make is that i usualy just drill a 1/6" hole or smaller rather than to cut a slot. Altho i have used oil too i prefer lubriplate pumped in with a grease needle. USE VERY LITTLE OIL OR GREASE!!! Only about enuf the size of a grain of rice on the commutator end. Cover hole with a little epoxy or Seal-All. Oil tends to drain off after a month or two and sling around. Lubriplate stays put for a long while. But i have used oil too in some cases.


At this point, the noise u describe is most likely due to worn bushings/brushes/commutator.

Since the replacement motor apparently did not fit correctly it is probably some commonly available heater motrer at discount store chains. Take your OLD motor and match it up to something more current. Let us know what it is. Probably 55-6-7 chevy or something like that . I did this on my 56 Executive underseat heater a few years ago. IIRC i used Dodge passenger Van rear heater unit motor. However, it did require some minor "custom fitting" to get it to fit. Something that most garden variety 'open for business' automotive repair shops shy away from unless u're paying them on a time and material basis.

At this point i believe u are better off trying to determine what is causing and repairing the excessive current draw rather than just throwing hi-tec parts and money at something NOT at fault while that which is a faulty part will only get worse.

Do your own testing. Does everthing work ok as long as heater motor is NOT used????? If so then most likely the heater motor is the source of the problem.

Posted on: 2011/12/2 17:04
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: Gener-Nator or Powergen alternator reports?
#14
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PackardV8
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Just out of curiosity did the dimming lites and dieing engine problems BEGIN AFTER u replaced the battery?????

OR what was the sequence event that occured just prior to the dimming and dieing???

Posted on: 2011/12/2 17:28
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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The new battery and the problem
#15
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Mark Buckley
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Quote:

PackardV8 wrote:
Just out of curiosity did the dimming lites and dieing engine problems BEGIN AFTER u replaced the battery?????

OR what was the sequence event that occured just prior to the dimming and dieing???


The problem existed before I installed the new battery. I've just noticed it more since the weather turned colder and the daylight hours grew shorter.

Posted on: 2011/12/2 18:59
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Re: The new battery and the problem
#16
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BH
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Cap'n -

Think about this for a minute. Practically everyone who drove a 48-50 Packard in winter as daily transportation used the brakes and turn signals with the lights, blower, and radio on at one time or another. If the factory configuration were inadequate there would have been broken down Packards all over the roads, back in the day.

Regardless of whether its a generator or alternator, 6- or 12-volts, positive or negative ground, the battery is only there to start the car. Once the motor is running, all of the electricals run off the "charging" system; any surplus output is used to charge the battery, as needed.

If the charging system is insufficient, then the car will end up running off the battery (when it really shouldn't be), without recharging it. The lights will get dimmer and dimmer and the engine will die. It even happens in modern day vehicles.

Yet, don't let the term "insufficient" immediately condemn the generator or regulator. A higher output charging device might only mask a festering problem - and only for a little while. I've had brand-new batteries with an internal short. Battery problems often begin in the summer, but don't manifest themselves until the higher demand of cold weather operation.

Alas, there is no substitute for "due diligence"; you have to test and rule out each part of the system to get to the root of the problem.

First thing I would do is remove the battery and have it charged and load-tested. The, are the cables from the battery to starter and ground of sufficient gauge and the terminal ends free of corrosion?

Posted on: 2011/12/2 23:24
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Re: The new battery and the problem
#17
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PackardV8
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Thanks BH. Your superb explanation and advice should be well followed.

Posted on: 2011/12/2 23:31
VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/mod ... ewtopic.php?topic_id=7245
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Re: The new battery and the problem
#18
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Owen_Dyneto
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BH, an excellent explanation!

Posted on: 2011/12/3 10:50
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Update: I replaced the generator
#19
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Mark Buckley
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Hi, all,

Based on the comments above I did some checking and discovered the existing generator--a Delco model 1102715--was basically tired and not up to spec.

I ordered a rebuilt Delco generator and Delco voltage regulator from Tucson Packard (AKA Chirco). The generator was $185 with a $75 core charge. The voltage regulator was $85. Both items were somewhat disappointing. The pulley on the generator had a significant dent and the voltage regulator showed corrosion.

My mechanic was able to cannibalize the existing generator and swap the pulley. He installed the generator and lubricated the blower motor, too. He reported the existing voltage regulator was just fine, so he didn't use the new one.

I asked him to tune the charging system for the following condition: engine at idle, all running lights lit, (including headlights on 'high beam'), radio on, blower motor on and turn signal blinking.

The rebuilt generator is performing considerably better than the old one but there is still a significant battery drain when the above conditions are in effect and I pull away from a stop. My trouble is that I've installed a PerTronix electronic ignition. The car runs very well with that device but--and this is a big but--the ignition really sucks up the juice when I start moving. The ignition will cut out completely if the power drops below a certain level. This leaves me stopped in the middle of an intersection, frantically hitting the starter.

The solution, thus far, is to adjust the idle speed to where the amp meter shows minimal discharge when the car idles.

This is not the solution I prefer. The high idle burns a lot of gas and is also rather noisy.

So now I'm at a loss for the next step. Any suggestions?

Thanks much,

Mark

Posted on: 2011/12/26 13:39
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Re: Update: I replaced the generator
#20
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Owen_Dyneto
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What I don't understand is what you note as a large current draw by the Pertronix - that draw should be almost trivial. I think you've still got another issue somewhere.

Posted on: 2011/12/26 13:44
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