Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
64 user(s) are online (43 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 2
Guests: 62

Fish'n Jim, Bob J, more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



(1) 2 3 »

Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#1
Home away from home
Home away from home

Robert Freeman
See User information
I guess it's that time of the year to start planning for my Packard issues to work. You know, the ones that I can finish or work with temporary fixes that I can still enjoy and use the car and finish at a later time.

One of these temporary fixes was the cumbersome brake pedal configuration that I made with the BTV replacement project. It is not only cumbersome and ugly, it is not really safe, in my opinion. It is also kind of an embarrassment when I show the car.

There has been some promising ideas, but none that I, or the originator, are confident in their implementation.

- Of course there is the return to the BTV and scuttle any plans to upgrade to disc brakes.

- The folks at 'Michiana Packard'' mentioned an adaptor to affix a modern MC to the BTV.

-- HH56''s brake pedal linkage to allow for the use of the original brake pedal mounting.

Any other ideas or thoughts are gladly appreciated

Posted on: 2015/3/29 12:49
Bob

IF EVERYTHING IS COMING YOUR WAY ...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
YOU'RE IN THE WRONG LANE!

'56 Executive Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#2
Home away from home
Home away from home

Craig Hendrickson
See User information
I'm working on a different pedal arrangement for my Panther. I have to modify the brake pedal lever arm, but the pedal will be in the stock location. The booster/MC will be high on the firewall directly above the vent hole, so you won't lose that either. It is different than the 1979 Chevy unit Lance installed on his 1955 Constellation.

I'll have it done in a couple of weeks.

Craig

Posted on: 2015/3/29 13:35
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#3
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
I haven't heard of anything new. Right now IMO the only truly safe viable options are the pedal mod and mounting a modern vacuum unit in the air vent location.

My linkages are too complex and hard to implement. They are also only barely tested. The first lever arrangement worked but had issues with looks on both sides of the firewall as well as fitting all the mechanism in the space. The second arrangement increasing the ratio using the air vent location also works -- a bit too well at the moment -- but is hard to install in its current form. Downside is it can only work on a car with pushbutton shift because where the booster has to go will most likely not clear some shift linkage.

Another semi viable option is the ElectroBoost. I know there are some installs of the ElectroBoost using the original BTV location that are apparently functioning well. Until proven wrong I say semi viable because I still believe the 1:1 pedal ratio used on those will have problems stopping the car in an emergency if something happened to the power unit.

The smaller master might be workable but until someone tries it there is no news. I have concerns because even though the fluid volume will be similar, there is a big difference in moving fluid. I do believe pushing a volume all at once in front of a piston will require more force than using a rod to displace a similar amount over distance. Whether the 1:1 ratio can work remains to be seen.

The air vent install using a salvage yard unit is not bad. If the pedal on the one done by Craig's friend were made to look like a Packard pedal it would be almost indistinguishable on the inside. Unfortunately on all the vent units the guts are in plain sight in the engine compartment so that might be a non starter for some.

Posted on: 2015/3/29 13:44
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#4
Home away from home
Home away from home

ewrecks
See User information
Howard- I posted an inquiry recently regarding the green 1955 400 that has been profiled on this site since 3-18-15 and has been listed for sale on eBay for essentially the same period.
The ad says that the car is fitted with front disc brakes and the photos posted show a brake fluid reserve tank mounted on the firewall with two descending lines. More interestingly, the interior photos show the brake pedal listed in what appears to,be the stock configuration and location.
I don't believe that the BTV will work with disc brakes nor would there be reason for two lines from the reserve tank to the master cylinder.
Unfortunately, I have posted three inquiries to his listing on eBay and one here about the master cylinder/ pedal arrangement and whether he has installed an Electro- vac or other unit. I have received no reply.
He does not list a phone number or email address but invites inquiry.
Maybe if he gets a note from you or Big Kev he may answer the question.
RJR

Posted on: 2015/3/29 14:10
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#5
Home away from home
Home away from home

d c
See User information
ewrecks, I am glad you posted the follow up as I saw your question to the seller and was wondering if an answer was provided. I thought this subject was explored to its end. I urge all when dealing with brakes to avoid strange pedal set ups and unproven systems. Remember we are dealing with brakes here. There are certainly DOT regulations to adhere to . Discussed before here are various systems to be employed and some have been discussed. Though various boost systems and single and dual MC fitment explored if the wish is to utilize the stock location and pedal, the ratio is not adequate to provide stopping pressure in the event of a boost failure. If you wish to have ALL the tech of the modern brake system and the "fail safe", (most fail safe) system that the automakers spent years and millions to perfect, do not reinvent the wheel. What most professionals have done for the past 12- 15 years is to mount a modern hidden unit under the dash. If building from the ground up, removing the dash and installing a system right, for good, is the way to go. See below link. Otherwise using a professionally reman BTV with NO remote fill and proper maintenance every few seasons should suffice for DOT.
http://www.fabquest.com/universal-und ... brake-pedal-assembly.html

Posted on: 2015/3/29 16:03
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#6
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
I'd be surprised if you could install that Fabquest setup using a vacuum booster and regular MC under the dash in any Packard. Maybe it would work with a short ElectroBoost MC but I'd sure hate to service either under the dash.

It is similar to what I did in the air vent except my pedal pushes the bellcrank instead of pulls. Pulling would be easier and may rethink if I work on it again. I had given some thought to making an easier to install setup using the ElectroBoost higher on the engine side of firewall. Not enough room for a vacuum booster up high. The factory AC blower takes up most of the space and uses the vent opening so means mine has to stay usable. Was thinking of a heavy collar and spacer combo with the bellcrank mechanism inside. The blower would be mounted to that and moved forward a couple of inches. A rod could extend out the side sealed by a bellows. Could then mount an ElectroBoost parallel with firewall and have a decent ratio to feel more comfortable using it. That is one nice thing about the blower being there. It mostly hides anything behind it.

Posted on: 2015/3/29 16:25
Howard
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#7
Home away from home
Home away from home

Troy Taylor
See User information
I have the drawings and components for mounting a modern dual MC to the existing TV Can. I can mount and seal the booster to the can and have an adapter plunger to the piston.

I have this on hold at the moment as I am getting ready for a spring show the first of May. I am up to my eye balls in a 374 rebuild, 55 Ultramatic, and 49 manual transmission, BTV, and 3 compensator for the show.

Be getting back on the project in a bit.

Posted on: 2015/3/29 16:46
[url=http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#8
Home away from home
Home away from home

Craig Hendrickson
See User information
To add to what I posted above about my new Panther setup (not the one I ended up installing on my 1955 Pat): it will be similar to, but not the same as Paul in Las Vegas. See pix on this page for some details:

http://1956packardpanther.com/PaulExec/PaulPowerBrakes.html

Paul used a 1972-74 Lincoln hydroboost, but modified the brake pedal. He was able to retain the D-side vent. He has been using this conversion since 2005 with no issues.

My new Panther setup will use essentially the same Master Power Brake (MPB) 7IN dual diaphram booster as I used on my 1955 Pat. It is small enough diameter to fit above the vent hole and below the cowl lip. It is already installed. The "trick" is to modified the stock pedal lever and mount to achieve 4:1 pedal leverage with the stock pedal pad location. My 1955 Pat conversion using the same booster has 3.7:1 leverage with its pedal mounting system.

Yes, I have the dash and complete interior out of the Panther, so it is much easier to mount the modified pedal. The firewall side wouldn't make too much difference on a stock, complete vehicle other than rerouting some electrical lines and making/plugging holes in the firewall. Various MCs are available from MPB for drum/drum, disc/drum and disc/disc.

Like I posted above, pix of the modified pedal lever and mount will be done in about two weeks.

Craig

Posted on: 2015/3/29 18:20
Nuke them from orbit, it's the only way to be sure! Ellen Ripley "Aliens"
Time flies like an arrow. Frui
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#9
Home away from home
Home away from home

d c
See User information
There are quite a few setups that will fit in the real estate behind the original pedal but if you attach a master to the btv canister you still do not have the pedal ratio that HH56 and others are looking for to enable minimum braking on a stall or other vacuum assist malfunction.

Posted on: 2015/3/29 18:24
 Top  Print 
 


Re: Any Recent Develoments In The BTV Relacement Brake Pedal Front?
#10
Home away from home
Home away from home

Robert Freeman
See User information
Wow, I never thought that this subject would bring such interest and brilliant ideas. The original Packard engineers would be proud.

My thoughts were to avoid the loss of the modern MC and booster that I had already bought and installed. My hope was to come up with some sort of pedal mounting bracket assy. That would use the original pedal and finish with the pedal in as close to original as possible. And with all that be easy to make and install, and look 'factory' That's not much of a wish list, is it? My mom always would reply "People in Hell want ice water, too!"

Posted on: 2015/3/30 11:19
Bob

IF EVERYTHING IS COMING YOUR WAY ...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
YOU'RE IN THE WRONG LANE!

'56 Executive Touring Sedan
 Top  Print 
 




(1) 2 3 »




Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
1933 Packard coupe, nine-tenths right side view, top raised
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2021, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved