Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

...my old top (prior to the start of restoration) has a rear window which it made of a solid glass with a SS frame around it. I wonder if this is original...

The rear window on your old top is not authentic, the correct rear window was clear vinyl w/zipper.

Walt- We are pretty much in the same boat. There appears to be several suppliers of tops for the 55 Caribbean - as mentioned in this post- but no one who can supply one with the liner. You are even farther away from Art's than I am.
The top material for the 55 is vinyl. The material for the liner has to be thin and used to cover the pads and line the inside of the top. Attachment of the liner seems to be the issue. Keppich sewed the material into top and by her explanation this made the top difficult to stretch. She said that when they did the installations at her facility, they always had 4-6 people pulling to get the right fit. That would boost the cost.
The rear window of every car I have seen- including the Howard Hughes/ Jean Peters car with 1700 miles- have been vinyl with a zipper. I do not know if Packard ever offered a glass window in a frame, but I would guess it was a replacement. If it fits well, it might be a good idea to save it for pattern since several upholsterers I have talked to about the top have said that the zippered arrangement used by Packard makes getting a smooth install around the rear window difficult.
We may be stuck with a top without a liner or finding someone like Art's closer to home.
Since my car, unlike show cars, will seldom have the top up and will never be exposed to rain, I might be able to keep the unlined top down and hidden by the boot. It will be a lot cheaper since a top from Hirsch which purportedly fits well sells for under $500..
Maybe some upholster will take up the gap created by Keppich retirement but with less than 800 cars produced over 2 years- and far fewer still existing-- I doubt it.

I wonder why the rear window causes so many problems in just the Packard convertibles? I would assume the rear window pattern is similar from 51-56?

Ok, what about this stuff to spray on the inside of the top,https://www.getflexseal.com.

Ok I'm kidding, but you would think that something would be available in this day and age.

The new tops I've seen with the rear vinyl window all seem to have very nice fit around the rear window and quarters so I suspect it more a matter of the skill and patience of the installer rather than the design. Have you ever had occasion to look at the rear vinyl window of a 56 Chrysler New Yorker convertible - it's a "wrap-around" in clear vinyl! Now that is a real challenge.

As mentioned in this thread earlier, I know several folks who tried to dye the inner ply of a top; the problem was that the dye bleed thru into the white top ply. That doesn't mean there isn't some dye or technique that will work, just that (as far as I know) it hasn't been found yet.

PS - if you look thru the windshield at the right (passenger side) rear corner of the rear convertible window you can see the "wrap-around" configuration of the rear vinyl, it wraps all the way to the edge of the rear bow. Pretty exotic!

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If someone had a scrap piece of new top material and a fabric similar to what is used for lining it might be interesting to see if the fusible webbing or powder is viable. One question would be if anything would stick to the top material or is there some kind of waterproofing treatment on the underside. Assuming it did stick, other questions would be is the fusing temp low enough to bond without damage to the top material and will it fold. Might be a worthwhile experiment.

Howard- I have scraps of the top material and lining if someone wants to experiment, but I have the Keppich top installed on the car and the liner is not attached and actually does not look too bad. The problem is that the top was cut wrong and does not lie well over the top bow and above the rear window.....aggravated by improper staple installation by the upholsterer which has left holes outside the cover molding at the rear bow and above the molding at the rear edge of the top.
I will try to take pictures of the liner and pads and see if I can download to this site.

Original factory tops for 1955 Packard Caribbean were Orlon. It was a tightly-woven white fabric. The same stuff was used on K-F 4-door convertibles. These Caribbeans did NOT use canvas. The Caribbean tops were layered on butyl and backed with typical convertible top fabric inner facings-only in color. The inner facings were not sewn in or glued on. They were calendared together in the manufacturing process... making them all one unit. The color on the inside of the 1955 convertible top was the same as the middle band of color on the body exterior-unless the exterior color was special-ordered at the factory. There was no separate inner lining. The top pads were also made in color to match. The inner shades for 1955 were either pink, pastel green, red, or pastel blue. For a while, about 20 years ago or more, there was a canvas-type variation material that Mercedes was using that was white on the outside, light beige on the inside... but it had the distracting zig-zag "dobby weave" on the inner face AND the stuff cost $25 a linear foot off of the roll...back then! The closest thing to these tops today would be vinyl with diamond-pinpoint pattern. If you buy it RAW on the roll, get it with the light beige backing and then you can color dye the inside of the top fabric.

Original factory tops for 1956 Packard Caribbean convertible were Hypalon... a kind of rubberized vinyl with a leather-grain appearance. Yes, like the hardtop exterior. White on the exterior, color on the interior for the convertible. Again the inner facings were not sewn in or glued on. They were calendared together in the manufacturing process... making them all one unit. The color on the inside of the 1956 convertible top was the same as the middle band of color on the body exterior-unless the exterior color was special-ordered at the factory. There was no separate inner lining. The top pads were also made in color to match. The inner shades for 1956 were either pink, pastel green, orange, or pastel blue. The closest thing to these tops today would be vinyl with leather-grained pattern. There used to be a material called "Everflex" that came in the right grain on the outside and light beige on the inside. It was used on Rolls Royce Corniche, but had mixed results with durability. If you buy it RAW on the roll, get it with the light beige backing and then you can color dye the inside of the top fabric.

The method I used for dying inner faces was simply spraying, preferably on a hot day in direct sunlight-outdoors on a large flat trimmer's table with the material held stationary. If it is good material and not stretched, then no dye should go through to the outer layer any more than water should leak in from outside. Dried FAST using this method. THEN I had the material made into a top. Of course this was a lot of years ago and who knows what materials and dyes are out there available today?

When Robbins Auto Top Company was located in Santa Monica, California (they are now in the Oxnard area) and they had a retail consumer facility (they don't anymore) I had them make up a couple of tops for 1956 with pink color linings sewn in and these were quite nice in appearance when up, but you could see the liner with the top lowered. Yes, it was very expensive, but worth it to get the look with the top up.

I had original factory convertible top patterns for Caribbeans, but I gave them to George Westmoreland at Acme Auto Top Company in Long Beach, California back in the 1970s. No idea if those patterns are still there or even if Acme is still selling tops.

By the way. The inner face convertible top color for 1955 Caribbean extended down into the top well. For 1956, the top wells were all white.

And yes, the Howard Hughes/Jean Peters Caribbean still has its original factory top-but it is not vinyl.

When installing one of these tops, it is not for the average DIY-er or for the faint of heart. Even present-day pro trimmers may not get it right if they are young folks unfamiliar with the tops and techniques required. The real trick is to be dead certain your REAR BOW is in the exact position it should be. In other words, your top frame should be aligned precisely... THEN the rear bow positioned dead nuts... and held there (professional trimmers used to have a tool for this purpose). (HINT: A HUGE mistake often made my folks doing these tops in more recent years is that they staple the pads to the rear bow WITHOUT using a positioner tool to hold the rear bow stationary. Usually what happens is that the bow moves forward with the added tension and the geometry of the whole top is thrown off. When the top fabric is then stapled to the rear bow, it is in the wrong position and the top is ruined.) THEN you do your stapling... THEN you do your cutting... THEN, hopefully if all was done right, you can install your rear bow trim (the original was a stainless piece). If you haven't followed all of these steps meticulously, you may have just ruined a top. Alignment and attachment at the header bow and rear bow are absolutely critical. Nothing else matters if either of these is done improperly. You'll have a top cut wrong or with staple holes in the wrong places.

For those who insist upon DIY, there used to be a great book (IF you can find it) written for industry pros by the godfather of the trim business, my old friend Nat Danas. The title was simply "How To Install Convertible Tops"... but you had to be a pro to get it. No idea if the book is still available since it was already old in the 1980s and went out of print long ago. Perhaps Eric Haartz can revive this book.

Leeedy- Thanks for the information. Since I have to try to move forward with my installation , does anyone know of a top supplier who produces a top for the 1955 Caribbean that would have a light tan inner surface? The top offered by most of the suppliers who purport to offer tops that I have found are the white nylon pinpoint but are black on the underside.
If I can find a light backed top, I will try to dye the bottom side and let the Forum know my results.

...does anyone know of a top supplier who produces a top for the 1955 Caribbean that would have a light tan inner surface?

Last time I inquired Bill Hirsch had the 55/56 tops with either tan or black underlayer and pads.

Owen- Thanks. I'll call Bill and order a top. If anyone has ideas on a dye that might work, let me know. I was thinking of getting a Hirsch top anyhow and attaching the green material from the Keppich top to the pads. The sides near the rear window were the areas that I was having questions about covering. If I can find a dye color to match the pads, it might work better.
I will do serious harm to the upholsterer if he drives one staple before assuring the top fits and the staples will be covered by the stainless strips.