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Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2008/8/23 21:43
From Minnesota
Posts: 1255
I thought I'd throw this out to the group:

My '54 Clipper Deluxe with 327 ci engine developed a fuel pump leak.
The pump in there now is an AC, but the Service Manual calls for a Carter.

I want to put the correct pump in. Is the swap from an AC to a Carter pump difficult? My mechanic, who has worked on the car often, seemed skeptical.

Maybe I screwed up and the AC is correct for a '54? The Shop Manual came out when the '54s were just being built. It shows the Seniors having the AC.

Kind of complicating matters is that the car has Power Brakes. I'm wondering if that made a difference in which fuel pump Packard put in. I doubt the AC that is in there now is original, though. It has been molested for sure, and was probably a rebuild, or could be the original with an amateur rebuild.

Any insights are much appreciated.

Posted on: 10/13 12:09:37
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Guy

Not an Expert

Lking for a '55 or '56 Packard or Clipper Hardtop: "Decent Driver"
FOUND a '54 Clipper Deluxe 3-speed OD with PS, PB, 327 "Thunderbolt" 81K on the clock. Very decent driver.
Still wouldn't mind a 2-door '55 or '56, but it might be a few years.

We had a 2-tone blue '55 Clipper Custom with Torsion Level in in my family beginning in 1955 when it was new (two years before I was born). The car was the regular family driver until 1969. You might say I grew up in a Packard!
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 1342
According to the parts book, the Clipper Deluxe had Carter pump number 446545 and it fit models 2601-11-13 and 5400-01-11-33. For 1953, I suspect a typo and that it should fit 2633, not 2613.

As far as having the AC pump in your car, possibly it was a proper replacement as it was not uncommon when pumps were replaced to use a different brand. You didn't say which number the AC pump has but it should be stamped on the flange and that might help in establishing if it was a replacement for the factory pump or whether it is from a different model.

In any event, I'm not an expert either but it probably doesn't really matter too much although it's possible that the pumps designed for the 4-barrel carburetor had a slightly higher flow rate or pressure but nothing your carburetor's floats can't handle if they are in good condition.

Posted on: 10/13 12:41:49
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15365
Physically the two pumps will bolt and the fuel line connections and orientation should be the same -- or at least similar enough it would not require any new fittings or tubing for that section. At the worst, I would imagine possibly the fittings on the vacuum section may be different and may require a change.

Some pumps had nipples for rubber hoses as the vacuum port connections and other pumps had threaded 1/8 NPT ports for brass fittings. You might need to get different fittings and maybe a length of rubber hose to make the connection to the existing tubing in the car if they are different. Nothing special in the fittings so should be an easy fix using modern easily available items.

Spec wise it looks as if the only difference is the Carter pump has a slightly different pressure output -- possibly because the smaller engines usually had 2 barrel carbs but even that should not be a big deal because of the substantial overlap in pressures between the two pumps.

Attach file:



jpg  pump.jpg (160.88 KB)
209_5da37fc378e9d.jpg 1352X484 px

Posted on: 10/13 12:49:27
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Howard
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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2012/7/24 13:04
From New Jersey
Posts: 615
The service manual for 51-54 cars was probably written in the Summer of 1950 pre-production, before the series came out. It mentions a Carter Pump. Service manuals do not specify parts, only the parts book does. A careful reading of the parts book shows that 51-52's used an AC pump and '53-54 used either an AC or Carter. So either brand pump is correct for your '54 They are virtually identical in mounting and connections. The vacuum section uses two short rubber hose "jumpers" between the pump and hard lines, there are no brass fittings used on the vacuum section on either brand. There is no difference in pumps if the car has a 2bbl or 4bbl.

Thanks
James From
Kanter Auto Products

Posted on: 10/14 5:10:00
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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2013/5/7 13:42
From Scottsdale, Arizona, United States
Posts: 476
Nice Work James...Ernie in Arizona

Posted on: 10/14 9:13:01
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2008/8/23 21:43
From Minnesota
Posts: 1255
Thanks for all your help. I'll let you know if the change from AC to Carter presents any problems on the install. Just looking at it, the Carter seems a bit more robust design, however, warning, it is said to be more rare than the AC, according to... Kanter! Thus, they require an exchange- the old pump must be returned before the new one is shipped. They were nice enough to grant me an exception on this, as the car would have been out of commission in the interim, and the mechanic balked at having a dead car to move around the shop for a couple of days.

I still kind of wonder if the different vacuum connection will present any problem with my Power Brakes, which I think were rare in '54.

Maybe the flexible vacuum lines should be replaced throughout. They look original.

I was also was wondering about the 2-barrell carb and fuel pressure that HH mentioned. There has been some seepage from the carb at times, perhaps due to the extra fuel pressure = but again, I'm no expert (except I'm getting to be more of one on this car).

Posted on: 10/14 11:00:14
_________________
Guy

Not an Expert

Lking for a '55 or '56 Packard or Clipper Hardtop: "Decent Driver"
FOUND a '54 Clipper Deluxe 3-speed OD with PS, PB, 327 "Thunderbolt" 81K on the clock. Very decent driver.
Still wouldn't mind a 2-door '55 or '56, but it might be a few years.

We had a 2-tone blue '55 Clipper Custom with Torsion Level in in my family beginning in 1955 when it was new (two years before I was born). The car was the regular family driver until 1969. You might say I grew up in a Packard!
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15672
Power brake equipment in 1954 was very popular, not at all rare or uncommon. And the brake booster draws directly from manifold vacuum via a check valve, no direct connection with the fuel pump booster, so no complications to be concerned about in that regard.

If your carburetor seepage is due to gasoline passing a closed inlet needle and seat valve, it's far more likely to be from a worn valve than a half psi additional pump pressure.

Posted on: 10/14 12:14:09
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15365
As O_D said, brakes are not connected with the vacuum section of fuel pump. If the car is stock the fuel pump vacuum section will only be concerned with the wipers and maybe a washer.

For the wiper plumbing you should have a fitting and 1/4" metal tube originating at the intake manifold. The fitting and tube can be connected to a port in the same brass block as the power brake check valve or in a small port very close to the check valve but directly connected to the intake manifold. The 1/4" tubing goes to the fuel pump area where a hose connects the tubing to the outlet side of the vacuum pump section. The inlet side of the vacuum section connects via another hose to a length of 1/4" tubing which goes to the rear of the block. That tube then connects to a rubber hose which completes the distance to the wiper motor. If the car has the windshield washer there will be a tee fitting in that length of rubber hose just before the motor which connects to another length of hose and supplies vacuum to the washer.

The intake manifold provides almost all the vacuum to work the wipers. As long as the manifold vacuum is the stronger, the valves in the vacuum section of the pump are held open and the pump effectively just connects the two pieces of tubing together. Under engine load or wide open accelerator when manifold vacuum becomes weak the pump becomes the stronger source. The manifold vacuum is not strong enough to hold the valves open so they start operating and the pump comes into use to provide just enough vacuum to keep the wipers moving at a slower rate. As soon as the engine is providing the stronger manifold vacuum the pump is no longer in use and becomes just a path between the tubing again.

Posted on: 10/14 13:49:37
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Howard
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
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Joined:
2008/8/23 21:43
From Minnesota
Posts: 1255
I thought it was all interconnected, but it makes sense there is a separate source of vacuum just for the brakes. I was not aware of the popularity of the Eas-A-Matic in '54. The car has PB and PS along with the three-speed OD manual trans, which may be a less common combination. IDK. Once again, I'll mention that it is advisable to make sure the hand brake is operational and can stop the car if there is a brake failure. I practice this maneuver on occasion so it is familiar to me.

Another little safety measure I have taken is to remove the hood ornament. It's quite a weapon in even a minor mishap. It's easy off and easy on, two screws, and you can get creative with plugging the holes with your own ornamentation. Wish I could get a shield like the one on the Caribbeans. Fat chance, I suppose.

Two other advantages: you don't stick yourself when washing and waxing, and it doesn't get stolen. I'd put it back on if I show it, of course.

Posted on: 10/15 10:32:13
_________________
Guy

Not an Expert

Lking for a '55 or '56 Packard or Clipper Hardtop: "Decent Driver"
FOUND a '54 Clipper Deluxe 3-speed OD with PS, PB, 327 "Thunderbolt" 81K on the clock. Very decent driver.
Still wouldn't mind a 2-door '55 or '56, but it might be a few years.

We had a 2-tone blue '55 Clipper Custom with Torsion Level in in my family beginning in 1955 when it was new (two years before I was born). The car was the regular family driver until 1969. You might say I grew up in a Packard!
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Re: Fuel Pump on '54
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15365
The brakes have the separate reservoir for the vacuum reserve mounted under the fender and if the check valve is working the brakes can stop the car a couple of times with the engine stopped. It most likely would be unable to do that if the wipers were inter-connected since those valves are not the tightest and would probably leak enough to deplete the vacuum over a period of time or quickly if the engine stopped while the wipers were working..

Be thankful the 54 did not have the stylized pointed spear like cormorants 55 and 56 used. If Ralph Nader had those to worry about he would have devoted a whole chapter to them. Not sure which Caribbean shield you mention. If the pair of fake "louvers" on the hood, that would take a modified hood such as the Caribbean used. Those hoods had the openings cut and a flap was raised and leaded in to form the shape. The lead made the Caribbean hoods thru 55 so heavy it almost takes a man and half to open them and will not stay up without a prop rod. In 56 the hoods were finally stamped so no heavier than regular hoods.

Posted on: 10/15 10:46:23
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Howard
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