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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 72
Dave, that's kind of what I was thinking. Hopefully we can finish the machining soon. It's really the last major obstacle.

I have a couple other things I want to run by you guys to get some answers. First up is the timing chain cover. Apparently before the engine was torn down, something sheared off these bolts from the inside.

Here's the outside, showing the four small bolts around the opening for the crankshaft:


On the inside the bolts are sheared off flush with the interior mounting face.


What could have caused this?

Also, we are not sure what is supposed to go between the timing gear and the cover. We have a spacer (maybe?) and I guess there is supposed to be some sort of seal there, but there is obviously something missing around it.


We threw a modern seal on it to test fit and it just doesn't seem right. Something is missing between the gear and the seal. And the spacer doesn't seem like it will engage the retaining pin/groove enough for it to have any sort of strength.


What are we missing here?

-Kevin

Posted on: 12/29 20:00:16
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 72
Work slowly continues. We didn't like the fit between the crankshaft and the timing chain cover, and the felt seals in the past leaked oil all over. So Dan worked up a solution that will bridge the gap and accept a modern seal that should do better.







Installed into the timing chain cover:


Placed over the crankshaft


-Kevin

Posted on: 1/25 16:05:33
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 72
We were able to make some other progress today. We got half of the pistons ready to go, but need to get some new rings for the rest. Here's what they look like assembled.


We also assembled all the valves. First up was cleaning the lower valve sleeves.


Then we gently pressed in those sleeves (incorrectly at first, had to do it over), inserted the cam pins and screws and adjusted the screws all the way down. We'll adjust them after the block is on the crankcase. Assembling the springs went very smoothly with two people and a hydraulic valve spring tool. Only took maybe 20 minutes.


Tops of the new valves.


Then we popped in the freeze plugs


Lastly was making nearly all new gaskets. We bought the Max Merritt kit and most of them were unusable. Several didn't fit at all, and most were literally paper thin. So we picked up some real gasket material and cut our own to line up perfectly with the holes and bolts. This took my dad the entire morning while the rest of us worked on assembly.

Next time we get together it will be to install the pistons, attach the block, and attach all other pieces. After that is reinstall into the car.

-Kevin

Posted on: 1/25 16:15:57
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Home away from home
Joined:
2007/10/28 7:49
Posts: 2294
The less gasket material between the block and the crankcase the better because thick material allows for flex between the block and crankcase during the power stroke. This will create vibration. The originals were very thin although a denser material. Ordinary craft paper will work.

If the gaskets are too small and don't line up they need to be soaked in water to expand them. As well they all need a sealer.

One problem I had with those gaskets was the oil drain holes missing which I had to punch through after assembly.

Making gaskets at home is a time honored practice, however, the people I was dealing with were always in such a hurry I bought the Max Merritt stuff to avoid confrontation.

Even considering that lab and dyno costs per hour are in the tens of thousands working in engineering is a lot less stressful than dealing with some of those old car crazies.

If you want to go first class you can add thin copper shim stock around the pressure bearing (read leak prone) areas like the cam follower housing oil feed holes, oil feed lines, and choke control on the earlier cars. This emulates original Packard practice. They used really fancy stuff on those motors.

Posted on: 1/26 3:35:46
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15908
Just following on to Tim's comments, those metal mating surfaces of those Packard engines were finished to very high standards and some gaskets were purposely very thin. I just measured an original Packard gasket for the valve roller levers to engine block, it's thin paper and measures about 0.008".

Posted on: 1/26 7:17:51
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 72
Thank you both, that is instructive. I had just assumed that the thin gaskets were mostly useless. Regardless of what we use, we will still be placing gasket sealer as an extra precaution. The hope is that once the engine is back together it will not need to be apart again for a very, very long time. And we'd all like to have no leaks if possible.

-Kevin

Posted on: 1/27 21:44:05
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Just can't stay away
Joined:
2008/10/27 6:47
From Ellensburg, WA
Posts: 72
I've got another question. We're looking at the water pump and something doesn't look right about this impeller. Looking at the 37-38 manual, it looks like it should be a totally different impeller design. The one that we have on the pump sits with a large gap between it and the water inlet to the pump (almost a 1/2" gap). That can't be right. It almost looks like it's installed backwards, but even still it doesn't seem to be right for this pump at all.


Here's what it looks like:






Here's the gap between the front of the impeller and the water inlet.

Posted on: 1/27 22:00:32
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2018/4/29 15:57
From Southern Maine
Posts: 20
Thats kind of interesting.

The impeller is indeed reversed on your shaft.

Didn't you post that the engine had historical problems with overheating? I suspect you may have found at least a contributing factor to any previous heat problems.

Good thing you noticed.

Best of luck with your project.

Jim/KB1MCV

Posted on: 1/28 16:41:29
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/12/12 21:29
From Dallas, TX
Posts: 1650
Time out. I'm not so sure. Firstly, that is not an original impeller. What concerns me is that is not dimensionally or functionally correct...yes, the replacement impeller I have adapted have been six bladed, so that does not surprise, and may be fine, but it looks shallow, so if someone with an OEM impeller will please chime in...

Posted on: 1/28 17:48:39
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Re: 1938 Super 8 1605 - adventures with a newbie
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/3/14 16:01
From New Jersey
Posts: 15908
Based on the pump and impeller used on the same engine in prior years, the impeller is mounted correctly. However it bears little semblance to those impellers, it looks vastly less efficient. Photo tomorrow of the unit from a 1934 320 engine.

Posted on: 1/28 19:47:08
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