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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 39
Quote:

HH56 wrote:
I will start by posting a factory photo with a partial view of what Don is asking about. A good photo and approximate length of the bare unconnected lines would answer many questions on exactly how Packard rerouted the filter lines. Biggest question is did the supply line go in front of or behind the thermostat housing and where does it bend to clear or turn upward to get to the filter port.

Most engines have the filter on the left with a short supply line that runs straight back and up but when the factory AC compressor is mounted the oil filter moves from the side of the left head on the engine to the right side of engine and is positioned forward and lower than the original location. It bolts onto the end of the compressor bracket. The question is the shape and where the new longer oil supply line is routed from the oil supply port on the front of the left head to get to the new input fitting location on the rear side of the filter canister. The return line also is different and looks to be just a short curved piece that goes into a 90 degree fitting on top of the block but if you have photos of that one as well it would help answer future questions.



Thank you for clearing that up. I was unaware of the filter location change between the Non-A/c and A/C cars.

When we finally got the car back in 2010 the engine was already removed with some specific A/C parts in the trunk. The Oil filter assembly was not among them. Ill keep that in the back of my mind when it comes to looking for the remaining engine parts in the Packard Shed. It could of stayed with the engine when it was removed back in the 90's, or the old man could of kept it when he got it back on the road. I dont know, I have to look.

thank you for making me aware of these differences!

Posted on: 2/6 11:25:23
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 39
Just a small update.

Not too much happened in the past couple months. Needed to fix the multiple leaks in the family’s old Dodge Charger and that took a lot longer than I anticipated, but it usually does. I finally got that done and took it for a small cruise around town before I started to tear into the Patrician again. I got the dash board and dash wiring and associated engine bay wiring out of the car. In the process I removed the toe plate with the TreadleVac and the column as well. The TreadleVac was sent to Ross Miller to get rebuilt for the Caribbean and the one on the Caribbean will be rebuild and used on the Patrician. We had two spare 56 senior dash boards in the Packard Shed and I took those two and the Patrician dash out to Pittsburgh with me to build one with the best parts.

The main goal is to get the car pretty much stripped of components while leaving it a roller to get all the dirty sanding and metal work done before the cold weather hits. That way I can start the paint and paint prep over winter and spring of next year to hopefully get it running before next year is out. During this time the engine and trans will be rebuilt. While that is being done at the parent’s house Ill be trying to get the trans work done in Pittsburgh, dash painted as well as interior trim painted. I also hope to get the seats to an upholstery shop before the end of the year to get some holes in the moleskin patched up.

Posted on: 4/24 7:14:41
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 726
Quote:

CarFreak wrote:
Just a small update.

Not too much happened in the past couple months. Needed to fix the multiple leaks in the family’s old Dodge Charger and that took a lot longer than I anticipated, but it usually does. I finally got that done and took it for a small cruise around town before I started to tear into the Patrician again. I got the dash board and dash wiring and associated engine bay wiring out of the car. In the process I removed the toe plate with the TreadleVac and the column as well. The TreadleVac was sent to Ross Miller to get rebuilt for the Caribbean and the one on the Caribbean will be rebuild and used on the Patrician. We had two spare 56 senior dash boards in the Packard Shed and I took those two and the Patrician dash out to Pittsburgh with me to build one with the best parts.

The main goal is to get the car pretty much stripped of components while leaving it a roller to get all the dirty sanding and metal work done before the cold weather hits. That way I can start the paint and paint prep over winter and spring of next year to hopefully get it running before next year is out. During this time the engine and trans will be rebuilt. While that is being done at the parent’s house Ill be trying to get the trans work done in Pittsburgh, dash painted as well as interior trim painted. I also hope to get the seats to an upholstery shop before the end of the year to get some holes in the moleskin patched up.


You will want to be very, very, very careful about mixing dashes on this factory A/C car. HVAC controls are different. Graphic indicators will be different. Cable lengths and routing are different. Electrical harness is different. Ducting is different. Glove box inners are different. AND there are other differences. Best to leave a factory A/C dash alone unless you are very familiar with the car and the system... and most people aren't.

And disconnecting A/C lines at the firewall may seem very straightforward, but most Packard V-8 factory A/C disasters start right here with someone disconnecting lines without using two fitting wrenches (instead of one). Usually the evaporator core is thus damaged and this usually doesn't show up until one goes to pressurize the system. Then the nightmare begins since the dash and evaporator core need to be pulled to do any repairs. All of which could be avoided by knowing ahead of time and using the right tools and techniques. And the workshop manual does not tell you this!

Someone in the past has apparently done a lot of parts swapping in this Patrician. The more you swap parts, the more you invite problems and unintended disasters. I seriously doubt the manual transmission is original–especially on a loaded A/C car. And you'll be sorry if you don't put the steering back to power steering... unless the driver is a bodybuilder.

Posted on: 4/24 9:32:54
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2019/1/30 23:11
From Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 269
Hi Carfreak

Watching your progress with interest. I have a 56 Clipper Deluxe with shabby paintwork which needs tidying up. Couple of thoughts:

1 If you get your hands on a good 352, and go with that, it might be a good solution. That's obviously what my Clipper has but it was fitted by a previous owner with an Edelbrock 4-barrel carby and twin exhaust system (which I guess you already have). Mine is auto and gets along very nicely with that setup. I don't know whether the compression was raised - doubt it. Important to check that the original oil pump has been converted in either case. Then you lose the vacuum wipers, but not too hard to rig up electric ones.

2 That's good advice about refitting the power steering if you can. My Clipper is right hand drive, so came without it because it could not be fitted as an option. As a result, I'm developing an impressive physique! You'll want to fit radial tyres of some sort to your car, especially if you sort the suspension bushes and Torsion Level out. Radials will make the steering even heavier at low speeds. But it will drive like a dream.They really do drive like the one in the video at the Proving Grounds when everything is working correctly.

Good luck with the project. You have a great starting point. Lots of fiddly things to do. By the time you're done, you'll be the expert!

And when your dad looks down on you, he'll be smiling.

Brian

Posted on: 4/25 17:29:06
_________________
1941 120 Club Coupe (SOLD)
1956 Clipper Deluxe (RHD and auto) - for the wife, or so I told her!
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 39
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:


You will want to be very, very, very careful about mixing dashes on this factory A/C car. HVAC controls are different. Graphic indicators will be different. Cable lengths and routing are different. Electrical harness is different. Ducting is different. Glove box inners are different. AND there are other differences. Best to leave a factory A/C dash alone unless you are very familiar with the car and the system... and most people aren't.

And disconnecting A/C lines at the firewall may seem very straightforward, but most Packard V-8 factory A/C disasters start right here with someone disconnecting lines without using two fitting wrenches (instead of one). Usually the evaporator core is thus damaged and this usually doesn't show up until one goes to pressurize the system. Then the nightmare begins since the dash and evaporator core need to be pulled to do any repairs. All of which could be avoided by knowing ahead of time and using the right tools and techniques. And the workshop manual does not tell you this!

Someone in the past has apparently done a lot of parts swapping in this Patrician. The more you swap parts, the more you invite problems and unintended disasters. I seriously doubt the manual transmission is original–especially on a loaded A/C car. And you'll be sorry if you don't put the steering back to power steering... unless the driver is a bodybuilder.




Thank you Leeedy for that information!! that is incredibly helpful about the dash boards! I guess I should elaborate on what I wanted to do with the dashes:

The dash board had a Mopar radio fitted to it and a speaker that was mounted by screwing through the gold faced trim. So I don’t know if the dash was cut to get this radio to fit (on the list to find out), but at least the gold faced trim needs to be replaced due to the holes created to mount the aftermarket speaker. Luckily one of the other dashboards was an A/C dash if I need to use that frame. I only have the one wiring harness and that was removed from this Patrician. The parts I was thinking of swapping was stuff like gauge bezels, switches etc. Essentially finding the trim pieces that look the best cleaned up and installing onto the dash that goes into the car.


On that topic, is there a polish that can be used on the gold faced trim? I got the turtle wax polish you get at the parts stores and that works great on chrome and stainless, but not so much on that gold faced trim.


Thanks for the warning about the evaporator. I already got the lines removed from the firewall and it appears someone used thread locker on those connections… So it was a pain to remove those lines even without the engine in!! I have no idea how you would be able to do it with the engine in there. But I was interested in doing what HH56 did with one of his A/C cars and retro fit a newer style evaporator, compressor and condenser in. I do have the original style compressor but from the research here no one has been able to find replacement parts for that. Also, the byplass valve (I believe that’s what it is called) is more than difficult to source.

My dad removed the power steering and installed that 3 speed. I would like to install the power steering once the car gets on the road, the hoses and power steering pump was still mounted in the car when it rolled into the garage and I believe the power components that were removed are sitting up in our Packard shed. To my understanding the car was running and driving after the 3 speed was swapped in. I don’t have information on if the overdrive worked, but the wiring is there, and the transmission will be gone through.

Posted on: 4/27 7:55:18
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 39
Quote:

b.wilson wrote:
Hi Carfreak

Watching your progress with interest. I have a 56 Clipper Deluxe with shabby paintwork which needs tidying up. Couple of thoughts:

1 If you get your hands on a good 352, and go with that, it might be a good solution. That's obviously what my Clipper has but it was fitted by a previous owner with an Edelbrock 4-barrel carby and twin exhaust system (which I guess you already have). Mine is auto and gets along very nicely with that setup. I don't know whether the compression was raised - doubt it. Important to check that the original oil pump has been converted in either case. Then you lose the vacuum wipers, but not too hard to rig up electric ones.

2 That's good advice about refitting the power steering if you can. My Clipper is right hand drive, so came without it because it could not be fitted as an option. As a result, I'm developing an impressive physique! You'll want to fit radial tyres of some sort to your car, especially if you sort the suspension bushes and Torsion Level out. Radials will make the steering even heavier at low speeds. But it will drive like a dream.They really do drive like the one in the video at the Proving Grounds when everything is working correctly.

Good luck with the project. You have a great starting point. Lots of fiddly things to do. By the time you're done, you'll be the expert!


b.wilson,
I was thinking of looking for a 352 and just boring it out to 374. But that means I need to source a 352 and then still tear it down to make sure all the clearances check out. If I am going to do that I might as well tear down the 374 we have and check that first before I just go about sourcing another engine. I remember driving the Caribbean and that had decent pick up in Low, but we always kept it in high to prevent the transmission from shifting more than it should. We are going with the Oldsmobile pump in both the Caribbean and Patrician. The Caribbean wont get electric wipers, if there is rain in the forecast it wont go out plus I don’t see that going too far from home until new seals are obtained for the doors, top and trunk. The patrician will get electric wipers.

As mentioned above, Id like to go with power steering. Id like more family members to feel comfortable handling this and I feel a lot of them would be turned off if driving the car felt like going to the gym.



Quote:

And when your dad looks down on you, he'll be smiling.

Brian


and thank you for that

Posted on: 4/27 8:08:26
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2054
Quote:
I do have the original style compressor but from the research here no one has been able to find replacement parts for that. Also, the byplass valve (I believe that’s what it is called) is more than difficult to source.


I’m not aware of compressor parts sources either but I did speak with a vintage A/C speciality shop which seemed to think they could not only rebuild the system but to do so to use R134a. Even rebuilding the compressor did not seem a problem and I would much prefer to keep it original (at least in appearance) than put in a modern compressor.

Posted on: 4/27 9:13:32
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15987
I believe the dash screens are anodized aluminum and if so, using a polish with solvents or abrasives may do some damage to the anodizing. I have no idea what kind of polish product is out there today but if you do elect for a polish try to find one safe for anodized surfaces. A downside to any polish is it will be almost impossible to keep the stuff out of the the tiny perforations and removal will be an even bigger headache unless the screen is completely off the dash. If the polish is not thoroughly removed. that in itself may cause a worse look that what is there now.

My 56 senior dash was very faded -- almost silver in spots -- but otherwise in decent shape so I wanted to do something with the color. After removing the bezels and edge chrome to free the screen (no small project), there was enough of the original rich gold color under various items that I could match an amber transparent glass stain to the original color and recoat the screen. I did spend a fair amount of time with a detergent degreaser before doing the job so that plus a thorough rinse is imperative. After it was clean the worst of the silver areas only were sprayed. After a reasonable covering to those spots was made the entire screen was sprayed to blend it all to a decent color. It has been almost thirty years since this was done and although the car has not seen a lot of sunlight or been subject to harsh conditions to hasten degradation, it still looks good and there is no sign of the stain coming off.

Posted on: 4/27 10:40:20
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Howard
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 726
Quote:


Leeedy wrote:


Thank you Leeedy for that information!! that is incredibly helpful about the dash boards! I guess I should elaborate on what I wanted to do with the dashes:

The dash board had a Mopar radio fitted to it and a speaker that was mounted by screwing through the gold faced trim. So I don’t know if the dash was cut to get this radio to fit (on the list to find out), but at least the gold faced trim needs to be replaced due to the holes created to mount the aftermarket speaker. Luckily one of the other dashboards was an A/C dash if I need to use that frame. I only have the one wiring harness and that was removed from this Patrician. The parts I was thinking of swapping was stuff like gauge bezels, switches etc. Essentially finding the trim pieces that look the best cleaned up and installing onto the dash that goes into the car.


On that topic, is there a polish that can be used on the gold faced trim? I got the turtle wax polish you get at the parts stores and that works great on chrome and stainless, but not so much on that gold faced trim.


Thanks for the warning about the evaporator. I already got the lines removed from the firewall and it appears someone used thread locker on those connections… So it was a pain to remove those lines even without the engine in!! I have no idea how you would be able to do it with the engine in there. But I was interested in doing what HH56 did with one of his A/C cars and retro fit a newer style evaporator, compressor and condenser in. I do have the original style compressor but from the research here no one has been able to find replacement parts for that. Also, the byplass valve (I believe that’s what it is called) is more than difficult to source.

My dad removed the power steering and installed that 3 speed. I would like to install the power steering once the car gets on the road, the hoses and power steering pump was still mounted in the car when it rolled into the garage and I believe the power components that were removed are sitting up in our Packard shed. To my understanding the car was running and driving after the 3 speed was swapped in. I don’t have information on if the overdrive worked, but the wiring is there, and the transmission will be gone through.




The very, very first thing you'll want to do it you plan on instrument panel swaps and switch and control swaps is to get yourself the special tool for doing so. I made my own using a precision drill press but I understand someone has been selling these tools online in recent years. In most cases, you cannot remove a switch or bezel from the instrument panel without this tool–at least not without takin g a chance on wrecking the bezel or switch/control. To remove or install the bezels and thus switches/controls you will need the equivalent of an allen fitting with a hole through it. The stem of the control/switch slides up into the fitting hole while the hex edges of the allen fitting can then reach the bezel attachment and unscrew or tighten in place. So. I strongly recommend if you are going to go this far, get the tool first!

As for the A/C fittings at the firewall. there were tools to install/remove these, but once installed they were never really intended to be removed. All of which is why they are so extremely difficult to disassemble. AND the very reason why I strongly recommended using two flange wrenches. Most people use one wrench and king-kong it into submission for removal–only to find later that they have destroyed the delicate bottom of the evaporator core. Which leads to a whole bigger bowl of worms.

As for the instrument panel mesh trim... why not simply have it re-anodized? Or remove it, clean it and spray with any of the wonderful coating sprays on the market now?

As you may guess, I'm not a big fan of swapping engines and other parts and customizing a Packard into a hybrid morph. Of course, then the next guy gets it and has no idea how to un-molest it or how to my the hybrid morphs work.

My dad was terrified of having an orphan car where you couldn't just saunter down to the dealer parts department and place an order. That was why he wouldn't buy a Packard in 1955-56. However, I see things just the opposite–especially today. To me, it is always a whole lot easier to simply put an old car back the way it was when new and be done with it. If the power steering goes bad–fix it. If the Ultramatic goes bad–fix it. It may be necessary to alter or substitute some A/C parts, for instance. But you can never go wrong with keeping a car original. Some of this stuff is like going after a mosquito with a sledge hammer. But this is just me.


Posted on: 4/27 12:16:05
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 15987
As for the instrument panel mesh trim... why not simply have it re-anodized? Or remove it, clean it and spray with any of the wonderful coating sprays on the market now?

That would be the best option if you can find someplace to do it. No idea what is out there now for the hobbyist small job market. It may be better on the East coast but out here a significant number if not most of the plating shops in the state have closed or become very restrictive in their offerings. In the late 80s before the internet, even thru Hemming's services offered ads there were shops that could do some trim molding type stuff but not many places had tanks that could handle the large screen. Those that did wanted a fortune to mess with a fairly delicate one off piece and getting it crated for safe shipping via truck lines due to the size was another big deal. That is why I opted for the glass stain.

Posted on: 4/27 12:40:18
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Howard
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