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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 41
Quote:

HH56 wrote:

Instructions on mounting the switch are in the book I suggested you download. There should be two screws or at least two holes in the bottom of the defroster channel near the original L defroster duct flange. That duct flange is cut flush and eliminated with AC so there should be some kind of flat plate covering the remaining hole. The switch mounting screws could be part of that plate or helping secure the plate. The switch mounting slots slide over the screws and assy is tightened in place. Switch has a slight offset with the shaft angled toward the dash hole location. A gentle curve of the flex cable will provide the drive connection to the knob.


GOTCHA!!! okay I missed that. thank you for that. I read over that thing and I guess I just glanced over that.

Posted on: 5/4 12:13:35
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 41
I got a little more time and got the harness removed!! Got the heater controls removed as well.

However the dash frame has been cut for the radio that was installed... The wonderbar radio would bolt up, but it wouldnt be as secure due to the fact the knob holes were also enlarged. Thankfully one of the other dash frames was out of another A/C car so it is already cut for the A/C switch. Ill strip that dash frame down drill holes for the door lock switches and the overdrive switches so I can paint that and put all of the parts I removed from the Patrician dash on that.

That being said, I have to remove the chrome gauge bezels to get the gold trim removed. I take it to remove the bezels I have to carefully push the retaining tabs to remove them? then have to push the chrome/stainless trim clips through their holes to remove that trim and then the gold trim will just come out?

Attach file:



jpg  harness removed.JPG (828.62 KB)
203788_5eb2bba868598.jpg 2048X2730 px

Posted on: 5/6 6:30:09
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

CarFreak wrote:
I got a little more time and got the harness removed!! Got the heater controls removed as well.

However the dash frame has been cut for the radio that was installed... The wonderbar radio would bolt up, but it wouldnt be as secure due to the fact the knob holes were also enlarged. Thankfully one of the other dash frames was out of another A/C car so it is already cut for the A/C switch. Ill strip that dash frame down drill holes for the door lock switches and the overdrive switches so I can paint that and put all of the parts I removed from the Patrician dash on that.

That being said, I have to remove the chrome gauge bezels to get the gold trim removed. I take it to remove the bezels I have to carefully push the retaining tabs to remove them? then have to push the chrome/stainless trim clips through their holes to remove that trim and then the gold trim will just come out?


From appearance of the photo included, it looks like the Bakelite factory air vents are still in place on the top of the instrument panel???? Eeeeek! I would very, very strongly recommend carefully removing these and storing them in a safe place–preferably bubble-wrapped in a box until your dash is back in place.

These vents are extremely brittle and will crack, chip, even shatter. And they are very, very tough to find. Very much so. I would have recommended they should have been the very first items removed from the dash if you were going to do a full pull-down. Remove them and store. You'll be glad you did–even if you have spares.

And if you have a whole extra factory A/C dash why not just use the bezels and gold screen from it?

Posted on: 5/6 8:28:56
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 41
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:

From appearance of the photo included, it looks like the Bakelite factory air vents are still in place on the top of the instrument panel???? Eeeeek! I would very, very strongly recommend carefully removing these and storing them in a safe place–preferably bubble-wrapped in a box until your dash is back in place.

These vents are extremely brittle and will crack, chip, even shatter. And they are very, very tough to find. Very much so. I would have recommended they should have been the very first items removed from the dash if you were going to do a full pull-down. Remove them and store. You'll be glad you did–even if you have spares.

And if you have a whole extra factory A/C dash why not just use the bezels and gold screen from it?


The opening where the radio face comes through is cut wider and taller. The bezel and gold screen will cover up the cut area of this enlargement. However the mounting tabs would not be able to be bent in a manner where they would fasten to the frame, but only to the gold trim. I would have been okay with making that work, but...:

the holes where the radio knobs come through the dash frame have been enlarged. Enlarged to the point there is no way to ensure the radio will sit flush like the factory intended it to be. Which means the bezels would not sit flush against the gold trim once the radio is installed due to the radio not sitting flush against the back side of the dash frame. Furthermore, even if I was able to initially get the radio to sit flush with the back of the dash frame, there would be no way to guarantee that the radio wouldn't become dislodged over time. Yea I could weld in pieces to correct the issue, yea I could make washers to fit over the hex part of the radio knob areas, but why go through all that work and time when I have a perfectly good A/C dash that has to come completely apart anyway for the gold trim? What ever dash board frame I was going to use needed to be stripped down for paint anyway.

Posted on: 5/6 8:51:43
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2009/1/24 9:59
From Davis, CA
Posts: 737
Quote:

CarFreak wrote:
Quote:

Leeedy wrote:

From appearance of the photo included, it looks like the Bakelite factory air vents are still in place on the top of the instrument panel???? Eeeeek! I would very, very strongly recommend carefully removing these and storing them in a safe place–preferably bubble-wrapped in a box until your dash is back in place.

These vents are extremely brittle and will crack, chip, even shatter. And they are very, very tough to find. Very much so. I would have recommended they should have been the very first items removed from the dash if you were going to do a full pull-down. Remove them and store. You'll be glad you did–even if you have spares.

And if you have a whole extra factory A/C dash why not just use the bezels and gold screen from it?


The opening where the radio face comes through is cut wider and taller. The bezel and gold screen will cover up the cut area of this enlargement. However the mounting tabs would not be able to be bent in a manner where they would fasten to the frame, but only to the gold trim. I would have been okay with making that work, but...:

the holes where the radio knobs come through the dash frame have been enlarged. Enlarged to the point there is no way to ensure the radio will sit flush like the factory intended it to be. Which means the bezels would not sit flush against the gold trim once the radio is installed due to the radio not sitting flush against the back side of the dash frame. Furthermore, even if I was able to initially get the radio to sit flush with the back of the dash frame, there would be no way to guarantee that the radio wouldn't become dislodged over time. Yea I could weld in pieces to correct the issue, yea I could make washers to fit over the hex part of the radio knob areas, but why go through all that work and time when I have a perfectly good A/C dash that has to come completely apart anyway for the gold trim? What ever dash board frame I was going to use needed to be stripped down for paint anyway.



FIne, but I never said anything about the radio at all. Completely understand that someone hamboned the openings in the dash and the radio isn't fitting. If you are swapping dashes, completely understand that your radio mounting problem is solved. And gold screen ought to be solved too.

However...the real concern ought to be the brittle Bakelite factory air conditioning vents in the top of the dash that are still attached and now upside-down where the vent lids will surely drop open and get damaged. These parts are unobtanium...

Again, I would very strongly recommend removing the A/C vents while working on the dash.

Posted on: 5/6 9:45:16
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 16036
Just FYI in case it was removed with the install of the modern radio. The original radio tuner section has a stud on the back of the case which is for a strap screwed to the bottom of the defroster channel. Purpose is to take the majority of the weight of the radio head. The holes in the dash keep it firmly located but the strap has the bulk of the job keeping the head level and unable to vibrate.

Just to reiterate what Leeedy said about the AC vents. Guard them with your life and if you have an unbroken pair then consider yourself exceedingly fortunate and be very careful mounting them and also in opening and closing them. The hinge pins at the back of the lid section go thru a very thin section of the bakelite and are exceedingly weak. That is where most of the vents are broken and there is not much in the way of repair other than trying to mold a strong enough surface that can be finished and painted out of an epoxy product. Cross your fingers and toes that it can be reinforced under the lid with a very thin metal which can be molded in the epoxy and will hold onto what is available of the original bakelite longer than the first time the lid is opened again. The threaded portion of the hinge which is part of the vent bottom and screwed to the dash top is a bit stronger but carelessness or extra force cause those to break off too.

Finding serviceable vents is indeed an issue. There was what a seller called an almost NOS set that went for, if I remember, $1500 on ebay three or four years back. A set that looked serviceable but also like there might have been some damage went for near a thousand and those are the only ones I have seen offered.

Here is a view of the firewall showing the strap for the radio head.

Attach file:



jpg  radio strap.jpg (325.16 KB)
209_5eb2eb828be16.jpg 1004X610 px

Posted on: 5/6 10:07:36
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Howard
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2133
Interesting to learn that the vents are plastic! I thought they were zinc castings as that’s what mine feel like and fortunately my dash is hanging upside down on the wall so they’re safe. They should be easy reproduce, though, so I wonder if anyone has tried. If not, I might give it a go.

Posted on: 5/6 10:48:36
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Quite a regular
Joined:
12/4 13:08:14
From Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 41
thank you for the pointing out that rear mounting bracket. unfortunately I did not take a picture or take notice to the area where the dash once was for that bracket or those studs.

and no need to worry, the actual vents have been removed from the dash before work commenced. Well they fell out actually. The hinge has been broken on them for some time. But they still slide up and down in the openings and stay up, so at least they are functional. They are put off to the side but I guess Ill pack them up in a box and place them in a safe area, thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Posted on: 5/6 10:56:53
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Forum Ambassador
Joined:
2007/4/20 17:54
From Fresno CA
Posts: 16036
Quote:

PackardDon wrote:
Interesting to learn that the vents are plastic! I thought they were zinc castings as that’s what mine feel like. Fortunately my dash is hanging upside down on the wall so they’re safe. They should be easy reproduce, though, so I wonder if anyone has tried. If not, I might give it a go.


Believe me, I have been trying to reproduce them on and off for 30 years. The originals appear to have been pressure cast in multi part metal molds which is not a real option unless you have very deep pockets for a tool and die maker to make the molds. For a repro today it might be interesting to see what a scanner and 3D printer could do but I think it will mostly be limited to silicone molds of an original which have several drawbacks. If you have patience and the ability to think in 3D when making the mold then I would hope you are able to perfect both the mold and the vents. The vent availability is almost nil now so if those in the cars survive unbroken another generation it will be a miracle.

As you will note, the vents are somewhat complex with many thin sections and areas that when a mold is made are very prone to trapping the mold material making it very difficult if not impossible to remove the casting without destroying the mold. The mold needs to be in multiple sections and getting multiple mold sections of the original in silicone that cope with those removal restrictions and can also be held seamlessly matched together for the casting is one thing. A fairly slow gravity pouring or even using light pressure to force material into filling thin channels without deforming the silicone or trapping air is another. That air entrapment alone makes pouring a casting somewhat tedious and time consuming so needs a material with a thin viscosity.

The next problem is the pourable general purpose urethane casting material I have found has a variety of working time or pot life. Downside to those with a decent work time and low viscosity is they almost all have a low stable temp of 100-165 degrees. I am concerned a car sitting in hot sun would have a dash top that gets hot enough the plastic would weaken or completely deform. One urethane material I found with a decent stable temp of over 250 degrees has a very short working time of less than 3 minutes. That is not enough working time to mix, vacuum and gravity pour thru thin mold channels before it hardens.

A high temp epoxy I found has good working time but is also somewhat brittle in thin section. Not quite as strong as the original bakelite but maybe an alternative. It can be thinned to a usable viscosity (with drawbacks) and injected under light hand pressure. If I were ever to get interested in pursuing the vent project again that will be the material I try to perfect or maybe something you could look at.

What I made for my car is out of the low temp stuff and is very presentable but I will not offer them to others because of the deform possibility. I just try to avoid hot temps in my car and so far that hasn't been a problem since the car hardly ever leaves the garage.

Here are the pair I made and used plus photos of just a very few of many rejects and the last set of molds I made.

Attach file:



jpg  IMG_0641.jpg (97.59 KB)
209_5eb30467595c2.jpg 1280X682 px

jpg  IMG_0838.jpg (127.21 KB)
209_5eb30a30125b0.jpg 1280X960 px

jpeg  Rejects out of low temp urethane.jpeg (106.73 KB)
209_5eb30a6d3795f.jpeg 1280X960 px

jpeg  silicone molds.jpeg (73.92 KB)
209_5eb30a7d0311b.jpeg 1280X960 px

Posted on: 5/6 12:01:52
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Howard
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
Home away from home
Joined:
2014/7/15 11:30
From Terrebonne, OR
Posts: 2133
Howard, I think that the modern technology that I used to make the thin ‘53-‘54 rear fender scoops should be able to do it easily but would be expensive. Still, I’ll look into it at some point.

Posted on: 5/6 12:59:46
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