Packard Forum Index » ZIS, ZIL, and other Packard Cousins!

I just dug up a December 1997 issue of SIA (special interest autos).They have a side by side comparison of a 1956 Patrician and a Chaika. It seems the Chaika was imported to the U.S. by by one Shimon Okshteyn.The article rehashes the old stories about Roosevelt and the senior Packard dies and intimates that this 58 Chaika was based on the 56 Packard.They indicate that the Kremlin imported two 56 Packards (Patrician and Caribbean)and two years later Russia has a car that looks like the 56 models.No solid evidence just speculation.

That was a good magazine--sorely missed. I probably have that same article somewhere, but I'd bet Guscha would be as good if not a better authority than SIA on Chaikas. Hopefully, he will enlighten us as to the known facts. There is no denying that when Russia copied, they did it well and they worked from the best so it is certainly plausible that's where they got the inspiration.

I am also interested to know underlying facts. How could the Russkies ignore international industrial property rights?

M. G.

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I don't think some countries care much about property rights. Didn't Stalin also have a new design US plane that crashed or made a forced landing near Russian territory copied bolt for bolt in the late 40's. Apple is currently involved in an ongoing copying frenzy in China and the Chinese govt has basically said "tough, we don't want to disrupt Chinese commerce" so won't do anything.

Howard, I believe that international proprietary rights and patent protection are wide areas with legal limbo. Almost three years ago Don (portlandon) posted a LIFE-pic that showed a Chaika that occupied the center stage in the Soviet National Exhibition on display at New York Coliseum in 1959. Ike has been one of its visitors (photo attached). The show was intended to prepare for the state visit of Nikita Khrushchev to the USA, here holding his first banana. Although without detailed knowledge in patent law I have certain difficulties to believe that the Soviets had an interest to introduce themselve as copycats.

GTO, after reading your post and especially in trying to live up to Howard's premature praise I made an effort to buy a copy of the mentioned SIA issue to deliver an in-depth coverage of its substance but unfortunately failed so far. Vendors, located in the US often restrict their ebay offer to national shipment. Well, I will try it harder and confirm for today the import of the two 56 Packards (Patrician and Caribbean). The deal has been executed by the Central Automobile and Engine Research Institute (NAMI, later NATI), a complex of buildings and facilities situated in the North-East of Moscow that occupies 16,5 hectares. The procurement was made in close cooperation with Rospatent, the Soviet patent office! With a probability bordering on certainty, no, as a matter of fact the Soviet copy-ism has been a systematic process with central governance like everything else of importance in CCCP.
Both cars survived the tests at the NAMI proving grounds and were later given to company ZIL but all Soviet vehicle builders benefitted from the results and insights of NAMI - one reason for the similarities of ZIL and Chaika.



[picture source: LIFE]

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As a matter of records the Chaika is a Packard copy. Sorry for not mention it; I believe it almost goes without saying. But like the ZIS-110 again not as precise as being a copy in legal terms (aluminum engine, conventional rear suspension etcetera).

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M.G., I don't believe that the Soviets as global market player completely ignored international patent law but they did their best to find gaps and vague formulations. Well, instead of fishing in marginal areas they have often exceeded all limits as proven by (visual) inspection.

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While looking similar, I'd bet that not one part will directly interchange between a Chaika/ZIL or Packard. They had the good taste to try to emulate the best, but they were a unique creation, it would seem?

Am sure you're right. I think Guscha had some information on various detail items showing considerable similarities and yet differences at the same time. I guess it is what would be considered a design copy, rather than a technical one.

Would be interesting so see how it would fly if done today--say if they liked and made a Cadillac or Lincoln copy. An example of why not might be the current disagreement which is making lawyers rich all over the world pertaining to design similarities between Apple and Samsung products.

The RUssians have a history with Packard dating back the Czars. Packard was a favorite.

"Didn't Stalin also have a new design US plane that crashed or made a forced landing near Russian territory copied bolt for bolt in the late 40's"


I believe it was a bomber, and they even copied the patch panel that covered a hole in the plane, instead of making the panel solid without it as the plane had been made in the US. Talk about STRICT copying.

B-29 i believe, and the soviet was the TU-70.