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Starter Problems
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Home away from home
 
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I recently had my starter rebuilt and now it's having some issues. Sometimes it doesn't seem to fully disengage. It'll be fine for several starts, and then it's not. I haven't pulled it yet, but going to do that this afternoon after work.
The shop replaced the drive because the front of the gear on the other was chewed up a bit, which is a bit interesting. I wonder if what is happening now happened before?  Here's a short video of the noise. drive.google.com/file/d/1duuFMiKRW-DSePSy1ULigGRXDx0IcoSJ/view?usp=drivesdk If it's making this noise, I shut the car off and then start it again and sometimes it's good and sometimes it makes that same noise again. I find that if it's making this noise, after I shut the car off and if I just bump the starter, then start the car that it's okay. The starter never did this before, but the gear was also chewed up a bit. Do you think I'm looking at a drive issue or a flywheel issue? I didn't look at all the teeth on the flywheel, but the ones I could see when I changed the starter looked okay.  I did try loosening the starter and repositioning it to see if that small amount of movement would help, but still the same. Any thoughts??
Posted on: Today 11:15
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Re: Starter Problems
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Forum Ambassador
 
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When they replaced the starter drive did they replace the entire Bendix or just disassemble to do the gear. If Bendix replaced did they use the same anti kickout type mentioned on page 35 and if so could there be a possibility one of the pins is damaged, missing, or intermittent in doing its job to keep the drive pinion away from the ring gear.
I couldn't tell in the video if the engine had started and was still running and the starter kept trying to engage electrically but if that is a possibility could you disconnect the carb starter switch and energize the solenoid via jumper to start the engine so as to rule out issues with the wiring or starter switch sticking.
Posted on: Today 11:49
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Howard
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Re: Starter Problems
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I'm not sure if they replaced just the gear or the entire bendix. When they called to tell me it was done they said they replaced the "drive". I took that to mean the entire bendix, not just the gear, but I could be mistaken. SC Vol 26, No. 9 seems to address an issue that's opposite of what I'm having, "premature demshing of the drive pinion", whereas my starter does not seem to be demshing after the car has started. In the video the engine is running while the starter is making noise. I hadn't considered the idea that maybe the starter is still energized and trying to engage with a spinning flywheel, which I suspect it would not be able to given the speed at which the flywheel would be turning. Before the starter rebuild this was never an issue, so I don't suspect the carb starter switch would be the problem. I rebuilt the carb this summer so I know the carb starter switch is clean and in good shape. But I know better than to rule something out 100% without testing it. But, my focus is still on the freshly rebuilt starter. I'm having another thought as I type this. I think they replaced the solenoid as well. Is it possible that it is the problem? Maybe it's sticky and keeping the starter energized? I'm going to do a little more in car testing and if I can't figure out whats going on I'll pull the starter and do some bench testing. My hope "was" that something was just a bit sticky and that after a bit of driving and use it would get better, but no such luck.
Posted on: Today 17:27
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Re: Starter Problems
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From what I understand, with that type of starter once the starter looses power, the flywheel should spin the bendix clear.
Unless of course, something is binding.
Posted on: Today 18:41
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-BigKev
1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog 1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog |
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Re: Starter Problems
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Correct. I just helped my friend fix his starter on his Model T which is also a Bendix type. His flywheel teeth are kinda chewed up and that combined with the Bendix being shot made the car impossible to start since on a Model T the motor will not overcome the drag of pulling the starter along. Could be a different story though on a car with actual power, which would damage the starter. The Bendix works simply by the spur gear being on a helix gear. The interia of the spur gear makes the helix gear throw it into the flywheel when the starter is activated and the spur gear is stationary; the opposite effect occurs when the flywheel moves faster than the spur gear to throw it back towards the starter.
Posted on: Today 18:47
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Re: Starter Problems
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Forum Ambassador
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To go along with the standard Bendix operation, the anti-kickback type Bendix works the same way but has a pin that fits into a detent at each end of travel. When engaged at the outward end when starting the motor the pin keeps the pinion in mesh until the engine starts. The high reverse speed provided by the running engine and ring gear now driving the pinion does two things. First is by centrifugal force the pin is raised against a spring to disengage the detent and once disengaged the the fast speed unthreads and "parks" the pinion at the inner or home position. The pin drops into a detent at that end to keep any vibration from the engine etc letting the pinion slide out of the inward position and possibly touch the ring gear. A binding or damaged pin or some other detent problem at the park end could possibly be letting the pinion slide out far enough to reach the ring and noise could be coming from that action.
Posted on: Today 19:19
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Howard
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Re: Starter Problems
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Home away from home
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So have been playing a bit.....
Disconnected the carb switch was good twice and then on the third time grind, grind. Pulled the starter and bench tested it. When I put power to it the gear only advances a small amount on the shaft, maybe a 1/4". I can slide it forward manually without any trouble, that is, it's not sticky. When I put power to the starter, shouldn't the gear advance all the way to fully mesh with the flywheel? If it's not fully engaging, maybe the same thing is causing it to not fully disengage. I can move the gear to the fully disengaged position which would leave 1/8"+ space between the starter gear and the flywheel. Here's a picture of the Autolite starter from my parts car. Bendix is almost fully engaged, is it like this because it has the feature that Howard is referring to? If I install it, would it disengage once the engine started? It's free and turns smoothly, both the starter and the bendix.  I appears as though the entire bendix was replaced on my starter, there's a USA sticker on there. Front edge of the teeth are a bit chewed up already.  Autolite bendix, gear a little chewed up as well.  I'm thinking of putting my Autolite starter on just to see what happens. Thoughts?
Posted on: Today 20:31
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Re: Starter Problems
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Home away from home
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Quote:
The new bendix on my rebuilt Delco starter can be moved forward or back and it just sits where it is put. I do not believe it has any of the features that you are referencing. So if it does not fully disengage, I think it just dances against the flywheel until the car is turned off and started again.
Posted on: Today 20:41
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Re: Starter Problems
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Webmaster
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If your bench testing off a battery (not a bench power supply), it should throw the bendix out pretty quickly as it spins (almost violently). If not, perhaps the starter isn't spinning fast enough.
If you didn't, I would test with jumper cables off the battery since the starters pull a lot amps, and testing with too small of a wire or a bench top power supply wouldn't supply enough.
Posted on: Today 20:46
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-BigKev
1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog 1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog |
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