Packard Forum Index » General

I am wondering if anyone has experience with permanent magnet alternators such as this one. It is for a small Kubota tractor and a similar unit is used by John Deere on their small tractors. Output is 12v at 14 or 20 amps respectively.

Haven't found dimensional or running specs yet but the thin size that appears from the photo is intriguing. The output would be perfect for keeping a second 12v battery running an AC unit charged when an owner didn't want to convert to 12v.

There is a poster on the AACA forum who has a regular alternator installed on his 29 that is under the car and running off the transmission output flange. I've asked if he could provide photos but am thinking it might be possible to do something similar on a later car using a small alternator like this one. Possibly it could even be turned 180 and mounted to the front of the generator and pulley -- providing there is enough clearance to the fan.

Any thoughts?

Attach file:

---

  (38.93 KB)

I'm not familiar with these. But need to determine what kind of a regulator or rectifier is used on the OEM applications.

What is approxamate diameter??? Might be further ahead (price wise) with something like a Suzuki Samuari or Geo Metro or similar such production car small alternator. I'm running a Samuari alt on my 48 Chief motorcycle. It has built in regulator.

Jegs.com has a 1 wire micro mini Gm alt. "5 pounds lighter" Internal reg. 55 amp V belt pn- 555-10170 but a bit pricey at $250.

I've seen extremey small alternators on hot rods (T-Buckets etc) that are only about the size of a coffee mug. Not sure who sells them but maybe one of the other major hot rod suppliers carry them.

Say Kubota and Jim Beam at a parts counter and most likely u're talking mega bucks.

Mite also check into Yanmar tractor. Supposedly it is somekind of a made in Chia Rica knock off of John Deere. Mite be cheaper and smaller than the Kub or JD Alternator. But i don't really know.

I haven't found a site that lists physical dimensions yet so no idea of thickness or diameter. Was hoping someone had a yard tractor that might have one on it that could describe it better or even take a photo. I am not even sure how it mounts and drives.

I like that it appears fairly watertight if it went under the car. If it would work, the price of the alternator is less than $100 on Amazon. The regulator is another $30 or so. Don't think there is a need for high output or even a racing unit and those are expensive. I would think 20amps is more than sufficient for keeping an AC battery charged. That would equal or maybe slightly exceed an aftermarket blower on high.

The super8 archbishop of Walnut Creek sent me these photos of his alternator installed, and how it easily matches up to a Packard engine generator mount. It's a AAB 6-volt, positive-ground, 55-amp alternator installation in his '47 Super.

Attach file:

---

  (129.87 KB)


  (112.21 KB)

Thanks Joe. Yes a regular one wire alternator will fit and bolt nicely. Aside from having a modern look, the only obstacle on a 356 engine is the pulley for the large belt has to be specially made. Believe the place Mike bought his alternator custom made his pulley by copying the generator pulley. Believe they now make them available at a healthy extra charge for others buying their modern looking alternator. AFAIK, it is the only place that has a pulley wide enough for the almost 1" belt.

For those that don't want the look of a modern alternator there are other options. The alternator custom mounted in a generator case by GenerNatorgener-nator.com/index.htm is one and I had thought of using a 6v Powergenqualitypowerauto.com/item_543/6-Volt-GM-Positive-Ground.htm on my car. With GenerNator the pulley is not an issue because they mount their alternator inside the original generator case and use the old pulley but it is expensive. With PowerGen the extra wide pulley is still an issue. The widest they offer is just under 3/4".

Adding AC is where the voltage issues start to come in. There are no 6v AC units so for anyone wanting to keep the car at 6v the options at present are 1) partially convert the AC unit. The blower on some units (but not all) can be changed to a 6v motor but the compressor clutch remains at 12 volts. Several have made functional systems and the clutch seems to work doing it this way but is not ideal for several reasons. One of the most important is the AC blower draws quite a bit of current and a 6v low output generator may not keep up if other accessories are on at the same time. That is where a 6v alternator would help.

A work around option is 2) run the AC off its own 12v battery and just recharge manually. For those not wanting that bother, for 3) some have managed to add another engine driven alternator to keep the second battery charged. With a fairly bulky alternator and the problems with mounting and driving the compressor let alone another alternator on a Packard not designed for AC the belt drive and bracketry becomes an issue. IMO, it also makes for a not great looking engine compt.

I was thinking the best of options for those not wanting to convert the entire car to 12v would be to use a stock aftermarket AC unit kept at 12v. By not needing a model that could have the blower modified in some fashion, the choices of units would be greatly expanded. Add a hidden 12v sealed battery just for the AC and charge that by a small hidden alternator. Advantages would be the car is kept as stock looking and operating as possible with only the drive and mounting for the compressor being the visual change. The fellow that mounted his alternator under the car provided a photoforums.aaca.org/topic/290995-dyneto-star ... ator-rewinding-etc/#comment-1589469 I think an even smaller alternator mounted and driven similarly could be a solution for those still wanting a hint of originality and to add AC to a 6v postwar Packard.

Just a quik note:
Inspect transmissons for a side plate that is just bolted on as a cover.
In such cases there would be a PTO drive available thaat mite be used to run the alternator. Mite be easier to mount. I dnont know. However, usualy any trans driven PTO Might require trans to be in nuetral for operation. Just an ide to keep in mind.

As an asside, I had a neighbor in Walnut Creek who had a 1912 Cadillac Model 30. The '12 Cadillacs were the first cars with all electric systems. The system was a 12-volt, negative ground. The starter-generator was a huge device on the engine. The starter part worked, but did not know about the functioning of the generator part. A modern alternator had been mounted under the car and was driven by the drive shaft. Do not know if the alternator was the primary or auxillary generation source. It may have been used to maintain a second battery. Anyway, it seemed to work and the car was driven on many Horseless Carriage tours. I got to ride in it several times. JWL

Several year ago I bought Bill Lauer's '54 Cavalier. This car is equipped with an after-market under dash AC unit. I believe the modification was done by Custom Auto Service in Santa Ana. I don't have any details on the means they pulled this off but the car is still 6 volt positive ground and the AC works just fine. I believe the blower motor and compressor clutch were switched-out for 6 volt items . . . but I'm not that sure about the clutch winding. I agree about the comment about electrical current requirements . . . except if the car is used primarily during the day the AC electrical demand should be less than headlights, so the original generator should be able to keep the battery at full charge, but perhaps only during daylight hours.

I've read quite a bit of technical information about running two different voltages of opposite polarity. I'll admit I don't really understand all of the concerns, but the compressor clutch is likely equipped with a single wire, with the ground provided by compressor case. That detail would immediately put you in the common ground arena (still not sure if that is a show stopper). If any of the after-market compressors feature a two wire connection, that is, the clutch coil is isolated from the case that's the one I would buy. At least you'll have the option to have independent grounds, assuming the interior portion can be isolated.

I've installed a 12 volt, negative ground sub-system in my '54. It is a 'constant loss' system that powers a 'Secrete Audio' radio, and various combinations of USB chargers, and GPS units . . . all low current draw. This system does not share the ground. The 12 volt system is completely isolated, and all components require two wire connections. There is no 'on-board' 6P to 12N converter. My 12 volt battery is actually two 6 volt Optima units, so if the car's primary battery lets me down I can steal from Peter to pay Paul.

My '48 has a voltage/polarity converter and is wired with a common ground. That converter is a 7A unit from www.cruisingelectronics.co.nz . . . yes that's a New Zealand company. Again that system powers a 'Secrete Audio' radio, and various combinations of USB chargers, and GPS units . . . all low current draw. That car is equipped with a 6 volt positive ground PowerGen alternator ( CS130 based stuffed into a case that looks like an 'old school' generator), so running out of capacity is not likely an issue. I tapped into the rear seat cigarette lighter circuit to power the converter. There is no 12 volt battery in that car.

If the goal is to put an AC into a 6 volt positive ground car I would contact Custom Auto Service and reference Bill's '54 Cavalier. If you run out of generator capacity because the AC must be operated in conjunction with the headlights then that's a different problem statement and that solution has a cost of no more than $500 for the PowerGen, or no more than $150 for a 6+ 10SI ( my costs have a 'set-aside' for un-expected items such as brackets and wiring modifications that always seem to crop-up). You will only be left with the belt width issue to deal with.

dp