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Re: Valves & seats
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Home away from home
 
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Yes, it could be done. Back in the day, cylinders were bored and honed, rod journals reground with the block in frame. No, unlikely anyone today would undertake such a task. Just touch up the seats, regrind the valve faces and call it good enough. jack vines
Posted on: Yesterday 11:10
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Re: Valves & seats
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I had a valve insert and cylinder sleeve installed years ago on my 1952 Henney-Packard and not only didn’t take the engine out but didn’t have to take the car anywhere as they had some kind of mobile equipment, These days, though, I’ve not found anyone who can do that sort of thing. As I recall, that was done by a Napa machine shop.
Posted on: Yesterday 11:38
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Re: Valves & seats
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With the engine in the car, you can grind the seats and reface the valves. We just did this on my brother-in-law's '52 and it was very successful. We started with sticking valves and a dead #8 cylinder. It turned out that one of the valves in #8 was out of round and could not seal.
We used an old school valve grinder set from an engine builder friend. He had a whole set of different sized guides to use, as well as different stones, a stone dresser, and the grinding motor. I ground the exhaust seats at 3 angles...30, 45, and 60. The intake seats were ground to 2 angles (not enough room for 3)...15 and 30. Valves were all refaced at 45 for the exhaust and 30 for the intake. I adjusted the valve seat location for each valve so the actual contact with the valve face was in the middle to upper 1/3rd of the face, about 2mm in width. Lapped all the valves by hand as well. Valve stems were measured with the appropriate gauge. I only had to adjust the length on 4 of them, and that was done a valve refacing machine, where we took off just a bit on the stem to get it in range. It was a lot of work, but so far the car has been running fantastically. It is the quietest engine I have ever heard, including from modern cars. The only sound is the air from the fan, and the exhaust from the back. You've done all your valve guides and things before. I think you can tackle this project without a problem if you have the right equipment. It is tedious and takes a lot of time, but definitely doable. Of course you'll have better results if the engine is out, but we were also on a budget when we did the '52 so we did what we could with the engine in.
Posted on: Yesterday 11:47
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Kevin
1954 Clipper Super Panama "Van Halen" | Registry | Project Blog 1938 Super 8 1605 | Registry | Project Blog 1953 Clipper Deluxe Club Sedan "Rusty McRustface" | Registry | Project Blog 1956 Packard The Four Hundred "Tanner" | Registry | Project Blog |
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Re: Valves & seats
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Thank you for the replies!
I was just over at my mechanic/machinist's, and we have a plan! I'm glad that he likes the Packard and is willing to help a DIY guy! He has a hand seat cutter he'll lend me, which can also be used with an air ratchet. Shouldn't be a problem to touch up the seats on #8, which won't need much work as it's the best cylinder. I asked if he would be interested in coming and doing the seats for me after I pull the engine apart. He said, "If you can replace valve guides, you'll have no problem doing your valve seats!" LOL So I'm going to tear into my engine again, clean up the seats, get him to grind the valves and surface the head and then I can put it all back together! Fortunately I have an extra head gasket! Can't wait to get this done as the car is basically a 6 cylinder right now!
Posted on: Yesterday 12:51
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Re: Valves & seats
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Very encouraging, thank you! Like the others mentioned all this stuff used to be done in frame, so no reason it can't be done that way now! I don't mind if it takes time, especially considering a few days ago I was concerned I might have been heading towards a full rebuild! This will only be hundreds of dollars instead of thousands of dollars!
Posted on: Yesterday 12:56
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Re: Valves & seats
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I had to go through every valve seat several times to get them right. It took a long time. There was some definite pitting on many of the seats, with the exhaust being worse. I cut the seat angle first (45 for exhaust, and 30 for intake) then went back in to cut the other angles. You can adjust where the seat hits the valve face by doing the other angles on each seat. If the contact is too high on the valve face, then do a deeper 30 degree (on the exhaust) to move the contact point down further on the valve face. You can make the contact thinner by doing more 60 degree (again on the exhaust) to thin up how much 45 there is. Lots of back and forth, and lots of testing.
You can use machine blue dye to help with this. On the valve faces I ended up using permanent marker since it was easier. Color in the valve face, drop the valve in and lightly rotate while giving it some downward pressure. That will rub off the marker and let you know where the seat is hitting the face. Once that's dialed in, then lap the valves with valve grinding compound. Valve seats and faces start here: 1952 Packard We took some video of the process, but not much since we didn't really know what we were doing. There are some decent videos already floating around YouTube.
Posted on: Yesterday 15:16
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Kevin
1954 Clipper Super Panama "Van Halen" | Registry | Project Blog 1938 Super 8 1605 | Registry | Project Blog 1953 Clipper Deluxe Club Sedan "Rusty McRustface" | Registry | Project Blog 1956 Packard The Four Hundred "Tanner" | Registry | Project Blog |
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Re: Valves & seats
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Home away from home
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I don’t recall ever seeing a Packard engine with multi-angles on the valve seats whether reground or original from the factory, When I first read that thread, it was a new one to me!
Posted on: Yesterday 17:52
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Re: Valves & seats
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Forum Ambassador
 
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Grinding with stones having angles smaller and/or larger than the valve face angle is how you, when needed, narrow the seat and/or move it so it's centered on the valve face. Standard practice in valve work. Good reference works from the 40s and 50s like Glenn's describe the process in detail.
Posted on: Yesterday 18:28
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Re: Valves & seats
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Home away from home
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Yeah, from the factory it was solid 45 and 30. No multiple angles. But like OD said, when grinding in new seats you are almost required to do a 3 angle job, otherwise the seat face is massive and there will be too much heat transfer to the valve. At least that's my understanding of it.
Posted on: Yesterday 18:53
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Kevin
1954 Clipper Super Panama "Van Halen" | Registry | Project Blog 1938 Super 8 1605 | Registry | Project Blog 1953 Clipper Deluxe Club Sedan "Rusty McRustface" | Registry | Project Blog 1956 Packard The Four Hundred "Tanner" | Registry | Project Blog |
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