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Wednesday 16th December 2009

After successfully removing the radiator from John's '39 110 yesterday, without needing to take off the front clip, it was felt that this could be the way to go with the '41. Wrong move, although we did get the radiator out without removing the front clip, had to also remove both front inner mudguard(fender) panels and the right rear inner panel, as well as the fan, pulley and waterpump to do so. However when trying to access the accessories on the engine to remove them they were very awkward to reach, so the bullet was bit and the clip came off. Prior to all this though we did a compression test, I know it's a bit late but I wanted to know and, to be able to answer Dave and John who suggested this but a whole lot earlier in the piece. Results were: Cylinder and Pressure 1 - 105, 2 - 120, 3 - 110, 4 - 110, 5 - 110, 6 - 100, 7 - 95 & 8 -90. Not too bad, but not too good either. Excluding 1 they decrease in pressure from 2 to 8. Then it was "off with it's head", relatively straight-forward except for the difficulty in breaking it free from the block. Tried shifting it just using compression, and that worked much, much better after putting the plugs back in! Loosened it a bit but the rear still held strong but finally, after some "persuasion", the grip was relaxed and off it came. Next it was checking the head, a quick look over doesn't reveal anything untoward except for being well carboned up. Then the bores and pistons. The bores have a fairly substantial ridge on the left side of the block and this was explained by the pistons. Scraping the top of #1, looking for size marking, ie Std, 010, or 0x0, instead found the numbers "795", but more tellingly the marking "FRONT->". Only trouble with this, it was pointing to the rear of the engine! Checked another piston top, #3, same again "795" and "FRONT->" and pointing to the rear also. Didn't check more piston tops, at this time, but this helps explain the bore wear. Because, as I understand the talk in the shop today, piston pins are slightly offset to compensate for "thrust" purposes and being around the wrong way this exacerbates rather than compensates the thrust aspect. Hope that wasn't too technical? So at the moment the '41 is up on jackstands at the front, front clip off, front wheels off, radiator out, head off, waterpump off, carb off, generator off, starter off, horns off, distributor off, fuel pump off and oil filter off. During all this Wade had a call from Dave at JJ Smith's advising John's 110 radiator was fixed, tested and ready to be picked up. Also rang Harvey to tell him 1) he can borrow the fuel pump heat shield off the '41, and 2) I've ordered his '40 Willy's grill. Regarding the fuel pump heat shield, neither of the '39's that Harvey is working on for his boss have one and he'll use mine as a pattern to make a couple.

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Mal,it would recommend to clean the engine water/cooling circuits as well, it might eas things in the future.
Its interesting that on many engines(not only flatheads) I have repaired the last ore last two cylinders get worn off the moste, can someone explain to me why is that so?

Quote:

Yup, cavitation. The rear cylinders are the hottest cylinders of any engine. What happens is under the heat and pressure little air bubbles form in the coolant (which is actually the molecules separating into gases) and then proceed to explode. These micro explosions in the water jacket most often occur in the very rear of the engine, which is why you see little craters and pockmarks back there. Most people think it's years of corrosion, (which technically it is, "cavitation corrosion") but this occurs on engines less than 5 years old as well.

So sayeth the Ford Power Stoke Diesel video I was forced to watch a few years ago at the Ford dealership I worked at....

Are you going to pull the coolant distibution tube? I think the present state of the engine with the clip removed, is the only way to remove it.

PICs would be appreciated.

lowell

Thursday 17th December 2009

First up pulled the intake/exhaust manifold off the '41. While I was doing that Wade was working on removing part of the clutch pivot mechanism. And looking at all the linkages, brakes, clutch and trans - all will be pulled, cleaned, repaired where necessary, painted before being re-installed. Then Wade was off to pick up the repaired radiator for John's 110, leaving me with plenty of instructions about what to remove or loosen underneath the '41 for the engine/trans removal. Great day for it too over 40C in Sydney's west and there you have a fat man struggling under a Packard to loosen painted on nuts/bolts(wonder who might have done that with POR-15?). Besides the painted on ones there were the ones still held in place and resisting movement courtesy of good old Idaho dirt, will it never end? During my long sojourn under the '41 Wade returned with the radiator so while I continued that Wade flushed the block of the 110. That done I emerged to help with the radiator, water pump, pulley & fan, thermostat housing, hoses re-install, a much cooler and comfortable work situation. Radiator went in easily except for the "padding" between the bottom frame and the front crossmember which slipped out of position first time. Second time, with the padding secured in place, it was even easier! With all back together, but before putting the bonnet(hood) back on, fired her up. All looked well until a leak was noticed at the top rear of the waterpump where the body and the steel backing plate join. Very disheartening for Wade, after all he's put a lot of effort into John's car but having one problem being solved then another another rears it's ugly head. Unfortunately, or maybe it's fortunate for Wade, I won't be there tomorrow to help hinder because the granddaughters require my attention.

Quote:Lowell,

I see you've made a number of posts about distribution tubes, you obviously have an interest in them. Because the engine is going to be completely re-built everything, including the distribution tube, will be pulled from it. I'm very hopeful it is in good condition, the water in the cooling system was clear and with the water pump off the front end of the brass tube looks pretty clean. Once we pull it we'll know more.

Don't I post enough pic's? Or is it you'd like to see pic's of the tube or other specific parts? If so, let me know and I'll take 'em and post 'em.

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Hi Mal,

Reading this thread has become a daily obsesion. I have been too busy at work to be able to drop by as promised - but maybe next week? It always seems like my work load and obligations expand to fill every moment and won't let up to give me some 'hobby' time... bugger!

Anyway, all the best to yourself and Wade for Xmas if I don't get a chance to catch up before hand.

Cheers

Matt Snape

Quote:Matt,
If that's the case, I suggest a visit to the doctor before it's too late!

Be good to see you next week but, with Wade going off on a break over Christmas, the opportunities to do so are limited to Monday or Tuesday only.

Friday 18th December 2009

Didn't get to the Workshop today but had a phonecall just a while ago from Wade updating the situation. John's '39 110 had the waterpump pulled and new gaskets made from a different material and that's the waterpump leak problem fixed. Wade will drive the car over the weekend to make sure all is well and return it to John next week.

Then on Monday morning, when I'm donating blood in the morning, Wade will be doing a pickup run. Big Red's crankshaft, rods, flywheel and clutch from Parry's Engineering and Noel's '41 160 re-built front shocks from Tony "Shocks". Wade will be very pleased about the Big Red situation because now he'll have all the parts to be able to put her all back together again. After all it was only back at the beginning of April that Big Red went in for a refresh. That it grew from there is a given for a 72yo Packard, waiting for parts, waiting for machining, finding more work/repair/refresh/rebuild/replace is required than expected, and wanting to do the work once and once only.

Your photos are excellent but there are never "enough" ..
I have worked on Ford and GM cars but I am always run
ning up on new show-stoppers on my 39 like distribution tubes, shutter-stats and pulling rear hubs on tapered axles.
Would appreciate photos of "pulling the distribution tube".
I am not as comfortable with pulling the front clip as you all are. I don't want to do it but once in my lifetime,

After cornering most of the pullers in town(that didn't work), I found an old one belonging to an old friend who used to run a frame straightening shop.It will be -5*C in my shed tomorrow and I hope some heat on the hub plus this puller will get the job done.

Quote:Lowell,

Never enough? Sometimes I think I go into picture overload here and it's mainly because of the quantity posted that I don't do more. Trouble is it takes time to load up each one individually to the post you're making and can become time consuming. Saying that, as I said earlier, I'm only too pleased and willing to take pic's of anything specific.

My Packard is a '41 120 while yours is a '39 Super8, I believe. Despite there being differences I'll certainly take pic's of the distribution tube when we remove it, probably next week. What I will do is get some pic's of Big Red's tube. Big Red is Wade's '37 Super8 and the engine is out at the moment getting re-built. Big Red's block was hot tanked prior to machining and the tube is currently out waiting to go back in.

As to removing the front clip, it really is the best way to work on the engine for accessibility purposes on these Pre-War Packards. It takes some planning, mainly involving lying under the car to ascertain which nuts/bolts need to be removed, wiring issues and what's needed to accomplish the job. Although Wade didn't take the clip off Big Red it's almost a necessity for '38 and later Packards with their "pontoon" type mudguards(fenders). It was done on the '39 110 when the rebuilt engine went in and also on Wade's other '37, Old Blue, a 120 when the exhaust/intake manifold was repaired. We tried not to do it on the '41 but it turned out, with 20/20 hindsight, we should have done so. I highly recommend you take the front clip off if you are doing major engine work on your Super8. And one more thing, you'll need some muscle to lift it off and away once everything is undone.So, invite some friends over for a or but probably best to serve the refreshments after the job is done!