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A search on the internet will show you that this is not a case of "we are hearing "loudlly" from a small minority of people relevant to the population of BTV equipped vehicles owners out there." It's spread across multiple makes and multiple years of production, even when the units were new.

But it's ok, we can just sweep this discussion under the rug like everything else around here. Heaven forbid that we actually solve something.

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I think there is a valid attempt at trying to figure out the reason for the BTV failures, as opposed to simply throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

But perhaps you have just out grown the website with your infinite experience, wisdom and knowledge. I wouldnt want to hold you back.

Nice sarcasm. I'm just going off of past experiences with threads getting locked, that's all.

The point of all of this thread is to either find a solution to the BTV problem, or replace the unit with something safer. It doesn't take "infinite experience, wisdom and knowledge" to know something is dangerous, all it takes is a little research to come to that conclusion.

People can bash me all they want, but everyone needs to realize that I'm just trying to make their lives safer by making them more knowledgeable about the subject at hand. And I know that if multiple people are experiencing multiple failures across multiple makes and different rebuilders then there's something rotten in Denmark.

I lock threads when the conversation gets repetitive, like it's getting now, with no real constructive forward progress.

I think everyone and their brother knows your opinion on the BTV. I can probably find 100 messages here on the website where your opinion on the BTV is stated in detail. So interjecting the same information/opinion over and over doesn't really help move anything along, it just makes people tune out. It's like trying to win a debate by simply being the loudest.

So if you have new information on how to actually fix the BTV to solve the failures that some folks are having, that doesn't involve replacing it with something else, then please proceed. If not, then let it go.

Opinion? I think I've conclusively proved that it's a fact, not an opinion. But if you request that I stop trying to help people with their cars I will oblige, no arguments at all.

I think this would take a ton of money and testing to find the exact cause that they fail, probably more time and cash and R&D than anyone here is willing to throw at it. Without the exact cause, in extreme detail, i don't think we'll find a failproof solution. Hell, there might not be a 100% safe way to fix a part if it just isn't designed well. Replacement would seem safer, especially to the do it yourself-er types that we have here.

I second guess everything i do (As anyone who reads my threads will tell you) and i'd be nervous doing some small repair that has to be perfect and that you can't tell is right unless you go forever without failure...and even then you might not know if it's not going to fail or hasn't failed yet. I would think finding a model of master cylinder and booster that work well in the stock location and some simple solutions would be a good way to move forward?

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Several people have done that already, Craig's example is just one. Having driven Craig's car personally, I can't say that I find any fault in the pedal's positioning, or the application of brakes. It's a simple and elegant solution for those who wish to remain stock looking, or don't want to do my Ranger setup through the firewall.

BigKev and others

It will not take lots of money or R&D to examine 25-50 failed units. As we are told that failures are widespread it shouldn't be too difficult to come up with them. We have in stock humdreds of BTV's whidch we can rebuild and supply on an exchange basis for the failed units and a Bendix Power Brake Testing Machine form the 50's to test them on.

All in all, the hydraulic section is pretty simple. A failed unit will leak or consume fluid, only need to find out why.

I understand it is probably time to close the forum, but I ask that you give time for Eric to reply to my question about where I said there were no failures at all when the units were relatively new.

When closed I will be opening up a new forum just for collecting information on specific failures and getting the units shipped to me ( we pay the shipping bopth ways) for investigation at no charge.

By the way, I googled the problem and found a forum on this site from 2009. Same actors, same script, different result.
Nobody did anything productive to find the cause.

Fred Kanter
Kanter Auto Products
Boonton NJ
Boonton NJ

I would think finding a model of master cylinder and booster that work well in the stock location and some simple solutions would be a good way to move forward?


And therein lies the problem. There is nothing made that even remotely duplicates the function and size of the original that can work in that location without something being modified. BTV's and the Moraine version were unique mechanically and probably the only units that could work with the 1:1 ratio -- and I'm not sure even if the Moraines could. Right or wrong, BTV units will be around for awhile.

The firewall mounts are excellent but not doable for those V8s with factory air or those who want to maintain any look of originality. Using the low stock location means the pedal has to be modified and as good as it may work, one look and it screams "changed" and none of the originality guys would touch it even if all the BTVs failed tomorrow. For anyone contemplating though, I think the only option for a subtle unobtrusive change is to refine the pedal somehow.

I would like to see a reason why the failures and hope Fred and company can find one but even if a cause or fix is found, I don't know if it would ever be trusted completely after all the publicity. Mine, while not failing, yet having such low use and having fluid inside the vacuum sure opened an eye. The gasket may be that reason but just that was enough to make me wary and want to explore options more.

Fred Kanter research topic:
What is the purpose of the hollow gallery down the back wall of the BTV master cylinder reservoir???? IS fluid supposed travel UP the gallery or DOWN the gallery???