Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

G'day again Men,

I have a question about fuel pumps, specifically for my car which has the 374, although I realise the manual lists the same pump for all '56 V8's - Carter M2198S. I have also seen the X reference referring to the Ford 292 Y Block and will ask a question about that in a minute.

My pump is going senile due to, I expect, old age and I started looking for a reco kit over here. Unfortunately, no-one seems to know anything about kits for Packard V8's so the only solution if I continue to go down this track is to search in the US. An important consideration here is to make sure the kit matches the pump in the car, which meant some exploration work. Doing this while still fitted was a little difficult but mine is definitely a Carter. However, only # I could see was MO 963 and a search of the internet for that # came up with an old Ebay sale for a Packard V8, which had the Carter box beside the straight shaft pump showing a part # M2198S. So the question is, are these two pumps one and the same?

Next, further investigation shows that there is an AC pump also for the Packard V8 - AC 4299. Can anyone tell me if that is a direct swap over and that the fittings to the Carter pump also fit the AC pump?

Alternatively, I could seek out the Ford solution. Here's my dilemma - the respected carby rebuilder/engine tuner I spoke to about reco kits strongly recommended I stick with the original type pump, unless any replacement definitely has the same length arm, the same lift and same pressure output, etc etc. Not wishing to offend anybody but do we know for a fact that the Ford is exactly the same in these respects? I appreciate that some have driven many miles on a Ford pump but I guess I'm looking for some technical advice, as well as reassurance. Regards once more, John

Just to comment on one small aspect of your post, rebuild kits for the OEM Carter pump have been reasonably hard to find for quite some years now. The better rebuilders like Gould rebuild them but use service parts they have made for their own internal use and not otherwise offered to the public in kit form. When I bought my 56 it has the AC pump which I swapped with Gould for the Carter. The AC pump was a bit dissimilar in external appearance and positioning of the outlet fitting, such that a new steel line would have been needed but the arm positioning was the same or nearly so. I ran it for some time before deciding, for reasons of authenticity, to go with an OEM-type Carter.

The Carter pump as used on the Packard V8 is an easy rebuild - provided you follow the shop manual instructions and the casting is in relatively good condition. Yet, after all these years, the rubber parts in an NOS pump/kit will be fragile.

It seems that the heart of that Carter pump (that is, at least the diaphragm) could be found in later variants for other applications. When kits for the M2198S became scarce, I was able to use those for Carter pumps as found on some Studebaker V8s - into the 1960s.

Take a look at this post in AL's blog on his "1956 Clipper Hot Rod".

Talk of a Ford application came up in my next post in that same thread. Yet, I don't recall if it was ever confirmed that this kit would work for our purposes.

G'day Men, thanks for the info. I can report that I have just bought a rebuild kit from Mike of Then & Now Automotive, Weymouth, MA (I don't know what State MA is). Mike does fuel pumps and kits, and probably a lot of other things, and he was able to confirm that the innards of my Carter pump # M0 963 and # M2198S are the same and his kit # CK104 fits both. Mike also said he has a recently rebuilt AC 4299 on the shelf if anyone is interested. His email address is OUR32@aol.com. Seeing it's an easy rebuild I'll be tackling the task myself when the kit arrives. I've attached a photo of my pump to show what I've been talking about. Cheers, John

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Thanks for the info. I just sent him an email for the two pumps I have that need rebuilding with picks and vehicles they came from to help in getting the right kit.

HotRod

G'day Men, time for an update on this project. This is the second time I've written this post - the first one disappeared into the ether as I'd forgotten to log on before hitting the submit button. I'll learn eventually!

Anyway, this project's taken awhile and a large chunk of the time was taken up with locating a fuel pump kit and receiving it downunder. The time was added to when one of the components in the kit was the wrong size. If you look at the smiley face bowl gasket membrane in the pic, it's eyes are too close together. A correct one was sent out, although it's OD was about 1/8" too large and needed trimming.

Removing and disassembly of the pump went pretty smoothly, apart from a couple of tight screws between the pump body and valve housing, but more about that later. Strangely, I found one of the inlet valve seal plates floating around inside - how or when it got out of its cage I don't know but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't help in getting fuel to the carby. Instead of the cages, the kit uses brake rivets to retain new seal plates and springs, and they are staked on the other side so hopefully won't move.

Reassembly went OK until it was time to mate the the valve housing and pump body. Two of the eight screws (probably the tight ones) were stripped on the ends and had some diecast attached. Troubling indeed and how to make sure the two halves stayed sealed. My conservative belt and braces approach to life came to the fore and I bought a set of longer screws, together with spring and flat washers and nuts, all in stainless steel, and fitted them. A purist might take offense but I think it looks OK and the pump certainly doesn't leak (see pic).

The flexible fuel line to the pump was feeling a little firm and I thought it better to replace it. I've ordered a new one from Niagara Packards, who make them as a project using materials for modern fuels, and they sell them for US $20 each, plus postage. Mine will be fitted once it arrives and the old one will have to handle the job in the meantime.

Finally, how did it all go? Well, after getting fuel up to the carby she started and idled in the shed normally. However, I was a little perplexed about one thing and someone with more experience about these things might be able to put my mind at rest. The glass fuel filter bowl on the carby doesn't get past the 2/3 full level, although it might at higher revs out on the road. It was like this before and I put that down to inadequate fuel pressure (???). I haven't taken her out for a drive yet but will soon. Regards, John

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jp,

egge used to sell rebuild kits,


rik

Most Packard fuel pumps have the long straight actuating arm as shown in the photo above. This arm reaches horizontally under the camshaft fuel pump eccentric.

However, I've occasionally come across one with a shorter "Z-shaped" arm. This contacts the eccentric at an approximately 45-degree angle. Since it came from a running car, it obviously worked. Anyone else seen a different arm?

jack vines

Quote:

Is this the different pump arm you mention? This is an AC pump which was on my 56 for quite some time.

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The AC 4699? pump works just as well. I just replaced that with the normal Carter pump because I thought the AC was leaking. It was not so it goes back into the trunk's spare box where I carry a spare water pump also. I had a bad weekend as I had to replace a trunk hinge and a fuel pump.
This on two successive days.

Should be AC 4299.