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Had a pretty bad mechanical failure when I attempted to start my '47 Custom Super Clipper yesterday.

Started up and drove to a nice show about 30 miles away without any problems. Then shut the car down at normal operating temperature.

Then I was to move the car to another location but car wouldn't start 5 minutes after I shut it down. Engine turned over strong but wouldn't catch. Gave up so I didn't flood the engine (if it wasn't already) or kill the battery. This is a recurring problem, the no start when hot issue. Usually after letting it sit an hour or two, it'll start up again like nothing was ever wrong. I have tried to correct this but have been unsuccessful to date.

So I let it sit for several hours. Still didn't start right up. Engine turned over several times before it started. Immediately after start up, there was a winding up sound followed by a horrible metallic thrashing noise. I shut the engine down immediately! Gear selector was in neutral and my foot was on the clutch when this happened.

After the pit in my stomach loosened up, I tapped the starter... Nothing. So I'm thinking it didn't disengage when the engine started and it was ruined.

Starter is completely dead now, nothing happens when power is supplied to it.

Tried to push start it with some help. I popped the clutch, but nothing, couldn't hear anything from the engine turning over, it was like I was still in neutral. I don't feel the engagement of first gear when the shifter is placed into first gear position anymore. Shift linkages appear to be in the right positions.

With the gear selector in neutral, I can turn the engine via the fan blade by hand and hear clicking from the starter.

Had the car flat bedded home and put it in the garage. I haven't touched it since because I don't want to face what just happened!

I guess I'll start by removing the starter.

Reason for this post: partially to vent, partially looking for someone to tell me that what just happened wasn't as bad as I fear it to be.

Anyone have any other ideas about what went wrong?

The not going into first gear anymore is what I'm most worried about.

Other info that might be useful... The car has overdrive but I have no idea if it works. No light on the dash and I have never been able to feel any change when I go through the engage / disengage process that is outlined. I just assumed that it didn't work.

I would like nothing more than to drop it off at the local Packard dealership to have my car fixed, but seeing as this is not a possibility, I will start the process of learning and fixing this myself. Any help and or advice is appreciated.

Sounds like the starter stayed energized and for some reason possibly the bendix didn't retract pinion when engine started. Hopefully it did and the starter did not over rev and destroy itself.

Those Autolite solenoids with the separate relay inside have given grief to others. Believe one other poster chased a starter staying energized problem for quite some time. I think he finally traced it to the engagement relay in the solenoid which activates the main coil staying closed -- but has been awhile so won't swear to that being the only cause.

quote:
"Tried to push start it... popped the clutch, .... I don't feel the engagement of first gear when the shifter is placed into first gear position"

I assume that means u tried to use first gear when push starting. Never do that except under very short and very slow push start conditions. Use high gear. Clutch is never popped but rather let out a bit slowly.

Once the starter is fixxed and if hot start condition remains then try holding gas pedal to the floor while cranking engine.

I agree with HH56. Most likely the starter gear is hung up in the flywheel.

Does the clutch pedal feel very different after the grinding noise was heard and starter would no longer operate???

Starter repair is rather ez. Take it of and lets have a look.

Starter motor problem aside, if you have overdrive you must disengage it before you can jump-start the car.

I'd suspect a bad coil or condensor for the hard start when hot problem, assuming you've checked the other things like fuel pump and fuel pressure, manifold heat control valve, etc. Do you have the both heat shields installed?

Absolutely correct... I should have used 2nd gear. I never had to push start a car before. Live and learn.

And I used the word "pop" figuretivly. I did just let it out slowly while rolling.

Clutch pedal feels good, no different than before.

I did purchase and install a heat shield that goes around the fuel pump. It was missing from the car when I bought it.

I can turn the engine via the fan and hear the starter clicking as it turns. I can't imagine what happened to get it stuck on the flywheel, the return tension of that bendix isn't light! It must be really damaged.

In other news... I pulled a spark plug. It was gapped at .050! All the others were the same. Champion J11C. Is this even the right plug for my car? I have AC M8 plugs that my Cadillac uses, looks like they work for the Packard too. Any comments on best spark plugs to use?

I'm sure this was at least part of the hard starting issue. I'm going to continue on through the electrical system and replace all the usual tune up parts and check the timing. Who knows what else I'll find?

I've only had the car about 8 months. All the problems that have been creeping up have led to me driving my other cars and leaving this one in the garage so far.

And yes, I'm angry at myself for not having checked the spark plugs much sooner.

I can't believe that the car ran so well (barring the hard starting problem) with such an incorrect gap setting on the spark plugs. And the plugs looked okay, not fouled or burned.

The more I go through this car, the more things that I find that were recently done, but were done wrong.

The more I go through this car, the more things that I find that were recently done, but were done wrong.

That's the case all too often. There are just some folks who shouldn't be allowed to own a tool box, or just plain get lousy advice which is, unfortunately, plentiful in this hobby.

Comments have been good in tracking this down: My custom 1950 also didn't want to start hot: replaced condenser, coil, plug wires, plugs (they don't come out of the box pre-gapped, which I had to learn). Went through fuel system and everything we could think of.
Before pushing it off a cliff, decided to replace the distributor: put a rebuilt one in and it was back to running like new. Guys always tell me that it's usually electrical; take it step by step & you'll figure out what is causing it.

Your car sounds like it is locked in overdrive, that's why you can't push start it.

As HH56 says, it sounds like the starter didn't disengage from the flywheel when the engine started. With the design of that starter (I'm assuming you have the same one I have on my 356), if the yoke lever that pushes the pinion and overrunning clutch jams in any position other than fully engaged, there is no way that the starter can be activated from the starter switch. It will appear dead. If the overrunning clutch is as dirty as mine was, it may not have functioned properly and may have allowed the engine to spin the starter via the reduction gear which would probably have been pretty noisy. Or... all the noise may just have been the overrunning clutch doing its job.

You need to pull the starter and take a look to see what malfunctioned and what (if anything) was damaged.

It's heavy.

What's the general condition of your engine compartment wiring?

JD, that sounds like my starter. I'm going to pull it off tomorrow.

The engine compartment wiring has a lot to be desired. Looks like a lot of hodge-podge over the last 65 years. Redoing all of it is on my to-do list but I know it's a big job, expensive and time consuming. I'll probably order the engine harness from Rhode Island Wiring, looking at about $600 or so after its said and done. Maybe this winter, if life is good to me.