Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Loyd, Fixed! I agree also.

Can I chime in here? This discussion has been very interesting. I too had the same trouble with repro bias ply tires. They were on my 51 when I aquired it. They looked good on the car but like other people have experienced the car headed for the hills with even the smallest irregularity in the road surface. My driving experience goes way back before radial tires in fact most of what I could afford were recapped bias ply tires and don't remember any car handling problems. I thought there was something wrong with the car. I finally put radials on it and what a difference. Will never put any repro bias ply tires on it again.


Does anyone remember nylon cord tires? Remember how the tires would develope a flat spot after the car sat for a wile? Was like driving out of a hole after the car sat over night. They would thump for miles until they would warm up and round themselves out again.

Quote:

Bob, Yes I remember the nylon cord tires well. At -40 the flat spot never quite rounded out until spring!

F.Y.I.: Tubes are available for radial tires.

nope - he dosn't have a valid point about modern radials. Some kinds of wheels, both "collector", and even some modern, have a problem giving a good "seal" with tube-less tires. There are readily avail RADIAL tubes for just about any size you need (my '38 V-12 came with "modern" style "drop center" steel welded discs, so I personally dont have this problem).

He does have a valid point about staying under 50 mph. That is, IF his car wasnt properly over-hauled.

The limiting factor is the "poured babbit" rod bearings. As I noted elsewhere, road tests when the car was new, confirmed if you drive a poured-babbit bearing equipped Packard of ANY engine much over 45 mph for any length of time, you will be lucky to get two thousand miles out of it before the rod bearings fail and damage the crank-shaft. Once the crank-shaft is damaged, it is a MAJOR operation, in ANY "senior" Packard engine of 1939 or earlier vintage, to "grind" the crank-shaft.

There is a reason why Packard (and most others) went to modern "precision insert" type bearings for 1935 and later production. There is a reason why no responsible engine overhauler will use poured-babbit for connecting rod bearing material if he knows the owner intends to actually operate the motor beyond driving from a trailer, across the grass a few hundred feet OR LESS, at a car show.

Now, once you properly equip a '34 Packard of ANY engine size with quality "insert" type rod bearings, you can drive it at any speed that amuses you, for as long as you like. Packard proved that in a famous 25,000 mi. extreme speed test in late '34.

And if you really want to enjoy the superb "handling", VERY competent power brakes, and general "feel" of a pre-war Senior Packard, get it a "high" (low numerically) final drive ratio.

I cant imagine anyone trying present-day "repro" bias tires, unless all they want is something to keep the wheels off the grass at car shows. Even a short drive with modern "repros" gives you a false experience - really screws up the car and prevents you from feeling the "Packard Magic".

Anyone who DOSNT know there is a "Packard Magic" feel, is missing a lot - dosnt understand why Packard out-sold Cadillac in the super-luxury super-car field - just as an example, TEN Packard Twelves were delivered for the 1938 model year for every single Cad. V-16.

Packard Twelve Fan, Why are you being so hard on poured babbitt rod bearings? I had a model A ford so equipped and drove the heck out of it. Granted it would barely do 55, 60 with a good tail wind, but I never had any trouble with the rods. I think if the clearance is set correctly you shouldn't have to worry much.

I have no problem running repro bias ply tires on my car. In fact, when Gene Tereshawty drove it, he said it was the finest 1940 Packard he'd ever driven. I drove it 2,000 miles last September and never once wished I had better tires.
The one limiting factor, though, is that it doesn't matter how good your brakes are, the bias ply tires will not stop the car in emergency situations nearly as well as with radials.

A good friend of mine regularly drives his '50 Chevrolet about 2000 miles a year on the set of bias ply tires that were on my Packard to various out of town car shows on some very remote and poorly maintained highways. I have followed him and he usually maintains 60mph most of the time. The engine in his car is the original "Stovebolt" 216 CID, (built between 1937-1953) which has babbitt bearings and low pressure oiling. At idle the oil pressure gauge shows less than 5 psi and at highway speed it sits at about 15psi. The engine does sound like it has loose rod bearings and they sure do pound going up hills but it hasn't let him down yet! It is not a car I feel safe riding in but it suits him just fine it seems.

I'm new here but an old pro at 34s. I've found it best to not re-invent the wheel (no pun intended) when it comes to restoring these wonderful cars.

On Lester tires: my biggest complaint is flat spots after long storage. Another is, it's true, many of them for years were quite un-true and had to be ground to get em round before balancing.

The old Denman truck casings rode a tad harsh and were not the most attractive tire either.

The current Firestone and it's older brother the Coker Classic were in my opinion the best looking, and while not absolutely perfect, the current crop seems to be really quite nice. I just installed a set of BW 'stones on one car and WW's on another. The WW tires are 750-17, look great, nice size, perfect for a 12, and while they aren't balanced yet are true and smooth to over 40mph. Maybe I got lucky.

Last year I put a set of Bedford double WW tires on a Deusy. They replaced some Lesters of unknown age and the difference was night and day. We always drove that car pretty fast and it handled really well. And no more flat spots even after a long winter storage.

As far as radials and other upgrades I seldom to never do that. I find good alignments and proper steering condition (no slop) to be the best way to enjoy "what it was" vs what it can be. This is a good topic to discuss air pressures. I like 28-30 depending on the car and tire vs the usual 32. While 2psi seems minimal, with the size of these tires it's a bunch. 2-4 psi lower can make a big difference in road feel and harshness, and in some cars improve handling. Just my experiences I thought I'd share.

And BTW, is that the car in your avatar? Rear mount spare? Where can I see more of it? Remember, I'm new here.

Well, the new Bedford's are on, and the car drives very well. It was difficult to balance one of the wheels, so it went on the rear.

I've had the car up to 55, and there was a little bit of vibration. No vibration at 50, however. I've only driven it about 20 miles.

Definitely rides better than with the old Denman's. Those tires were loud and rough-riding.

Highland160: There is a pict of the car in the owner's registry. It has dual sidemount spares. My avatar shows the car during repainting, before the spares were remounted.

Thanks to everyone for your input.

Cheers,

Tom