Packard Forum Index » General

Would like to add my 2 cents to the conversation. Purchased a 52 200 sedan about 7 years ago. At the time the car had 4 almost new radials on the car and everything seemed alright but I would develop mysterious leaks. I would go into the garage and a tire would be completely flat for no apparent reason. Seemed to happen only after I washed the car. What I discovered was the holes for the air stems were slightly larger in diameter than the stem. When you washed the wheel the stem would be displaced just enough to cause a slow leak. The stems were brand new and purchased when the previous owner bought the tires.

I put tubes in the tires and never had the problem again and it's going on 7 years. I rotate the wheels once a year, keep the tires properly inflated and I don't "baby" the car when I drive it. No dry rot issues presently. I don't pretend to be an expert on anything but feel that there is no need to get too technical with this stuff. You do what works within reason and I would be the first one to "cease fire" if I thought there was some sort of safety issue. BTW, the wheels are fine, apparently just not designed for tubeless tires. Suppose truck stems may work but just did not go in that direction. Just my 2 cents.

What you say about the 1952 car wheels makes sense to me. My point had to do with post 1953 cars, which were designed for tubeless tires. Your point about the wider valve stem affirms the point I made earlier about trying to squeeze a tube's valve stem through a narrower tubeless rim.

I put tubeless radials on my '48. They hold air just fine. I did sandblast the rims and refinish them, and they required a larger than normal diameter valve stem, as the tires that came on the car had tubes.

The car drives 100% better with the radials.

The main benefit of tubeless is resistance to blow out.

I always use bead sealer on valve stems and the case of the leaky valve stems may have come from someone reaming those holes.

One thing I like about tubes is they hold air.

Tubeless works fine on old rims providing they are carefully prepped, but sometimes you just have to go to a tube.

I think anyone will agree that running tubes in a tubeless tire (radial or other) in unnecesary UNLESS there is somekind of air loss problem.

As for the tire inflation stems:
To the best of my knowledge there are two, exactly two and only two different size diameter stems and therefore only two wheel hole diameters. A big and a small. I do not recall actual measurements. Only two such stems for passengercar /lite truck vehicles late 40's (or possibly much earlier) thru at least early 2000 or maybe todate.

Tubes can be bought with small OR large stems.
Case in point:

I had a bottom of the line 1980 Dodge picup, a D-100. OEM equiped with radials. In 1984 i bought some bias ply because they were DIRT CHEAP. Marked "BLEM" and "TUBE REQUIRED". THe 'blem" and "tube requirde" words were BURNED into the side of each tire. But the tires were originaly manufactureed as tubeLESS and said so on the tires in the usual place. Bought them from a major tire dealer here in Nashville. Bought tubes with stems that fit the small hole perfectly. I ran that truck 12 years and 125K miles wearing out 4 or 5 sets of tires.

So it is not clear to me what all this talk is about "rims designed for tube" or "designed for tubeless" or "designed for radials" or "not designed for radials".

Unless someone can give specific characteristics about wheel design then at this point any claims of "rim design" is tantamount to claims of streight weight oil vs multi-grade engine oil requirements due to "engine design".

Tire stem holes:

Tire stems on tubeLESS tires can be difficult to install unless the mechanic knows waht he is doing. The stem MUST be PULLED into the hole of the rim. NOT driven in. a small film of grease is usually required.

Poor fitting stems (i've never seen one) is probably due to someone having filed the hole to make installation easier becuae they didn't know how to install the stem or used somekind of el-cheapo china-rican stems.

To this day i can buy both the large and the small diameter tubeless tire stems locally at many various auto parts stores.

Good morning. Nearly 3.00 am here. Drizzling rain outside, cold and well past my bedtime.

I was speaking with Packard Pete to-day about radials and tubes on my recently acquired 1954 Clipper. My past experience with tubes fitted to tubeless tyres was not good and may be relevant to this discussion.

I have a Bentley T Coupe which came fitted with Dayton knock-on wires. Because of the leakage through the spoke ends, the radial tyres had to be fitted with tubes. All went beautifully until after a few thousand Km I started getting pinhole punctures in the tubes. No holes in the tyres themselves. One chap down at Beechworth, who fixed one of the punctures for me pointed out that because tubeless tyres are not supposed to have tubes in them they are not necessary smooth inside. The ribs which are very visible on most tubeless and radial tyres eventually wear their way through a tube and especially so in the case of radials which are a lot more flexible in the walls.

After several more pinhole punctures I reluctantly removed the Daytons and went back to the original steel rims with the same tyres fitted minus the tubes. The punctures problem disappeared. And so I deny myself the glory of a Bentley with wires but I spare myself the regular punctures. I am sure the tyre repairer was correct.

When the Packard pulled up lame in the rear right tyre due to a 2 inch nail I noticed for the first time that the tyres, although radials had tubes fitted. I am sure this is a recipe for long term maintenance so I resolved to get rid of the troublesome tubes. My local fitter works on normal cars. When I went to pick up the wheels fitted with my new radials they weren't. The valve stem used on nearly everything on the Australian roads is less than 10mm diameter and the hole in the Packard rim is considerably larger. At his time of the day the workshop where the rims are waiting for new valve stems is locked up so I can't say what the actual diameter of the valve stem hole is in the Packard rim but my guess it could be 5/8 inch which seems to be an alternative which is commercially available.

I go for no tubes for tubeless tyres and especially for radials, and if you decide to do away with the tubes on your Packard make sure you have the correct size valve tubes in tubeless tyrese stems available for the new configuration.

I am both tyred and tired. Good night.

Lawrie

G'day lawrie,
to PackardInfo, good to have another Aussie on board.
And for including your '54 Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan in the Packard Owner's Registry. I see you put your sleeplessness last night to good use by telling quite a story. Thanks for that too!

It's co-incidental that Noel, Peter Packard's friend, was telling me earlier this week that you had bought the Clipper. Noel is also keen for you to join the Packard club here, as I am too, so you have been warned!

Edit Link to Clipper on Shannons Auction Site

To follow up on valve stem holes sizes in the rims of my '54 Clipper.

I retrieved the rims on Friday morning. I could not get back onto the internet for the rest of the day to order the bigger size stems from automotivehardware in US. They only mentioned the 7/16 and 5/8 inch sizes so it seems probable that there are as stated previously on this site, only two stem hole sizes for tubeless tyres. The hole for the stem on my '54 is 5/8 inch diameter. I actually used a metric tape and measured about 16 mm. It is much easier to measure from inside the rim once the tyre is off.

Eventually I tracked down a local tyre fitter who had both the 7/16 and 5/8 sizes in stock and was able to get the tyres fitted before the weekend. I have used 225/75R15 Bridgestones. These seem to be about 10mm smaller in rolling diameter than the 7.60/15 cross ply which was on the spare.

And Ozstatman thanks for your welcome. I hope to see Noel later to-day. Joining the Packard club seems to be an unavoidable pleasure yet to be experienced. My internet access problems seem to have been overcome for the present so I might be able to start on related activities before midnight in future.

Lawrie

What brand were the tubes that developed pin holes???