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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Forum Ambassador
 
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Those lunati springs, although require head work, solved my problem and should be good for way mor revs then stock ever was.
here is the link to what I did. https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=653&forum=10&post_id=88980#forumpost88980 and https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=653&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=960 Attach file:  (73.06 KB)
Posted on: 2013/8/2 7:36
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1937 Packard 138-CD Deluxe Touring Limousine
Maroon/Black 1090-1021 [url=https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/View.php?ID=232]1955 Packard |
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
 
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I don't have one of those valve retainers on my desk at the moment, but when I was a kid, I had this BSA motorcycle and I took the cylinder head to a machine shop where they put small block Chevy valves in it rather than new seats. So how special can those retainers possibly be?
Those other notes are intended to show that if you want to abuse an engine there are cheaper ways to do so than Packards. I don't think 60 year and older Packards are up to the task. I repaired my share of motors that blew up on the highway. If the test track Patrician had the 3.07 rear it would only be turning 3900 which is pretty relaxed. I saw lots of V-8's go the distance provided they weren't abused. In reality the 1935 15,000 WOT run of an Eight with 4.69 final drive was a harsher test.
Posted on: 2013/8/2 8:35
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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According to what I've read the 25,000 mile test run AVERAGED 104+ mph so it must have had significant portions of it at higher speeds since the average speed included pit stops. What could the gas mileage have been, certainly not more than 10 mpg and probably less - so that's at least 125 stops for gasoline. And tire changes, driver changes, probably at least one set of ignition points, oil change or two?, etc. Those who like to play around with numbers might like to do a little number crunching based on what you think the pit stop times might have been.
Posted on: 2013/8/2 11:29
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
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Quote:
I wasn't aware of any supply problem getting the original factory-improved (hardened) retainers, I routinely got a set from one of the national Packard vendors a year or so ago. Has the supply run dry? Yes, it's run dry at Kanter. Fred says they're all gone and don't know if they'll ever get any more. I haven't called the other vendors yet. From whom did any of us buy retainers most recently? Quote: I don't have one of those valve retainers on my desk at the moment, but when I was a kid, I had this BSA motorcycle and I took the cylinder head to a machine shop where they put small block Chevy valves in it rather than new seats. So how special can those retainers possibly be? Very, very special, Tim. Packard V8s use a very large diameter valve spring. In fifty years, I've never found anything close to a direct interchange. And no, Tim, absolutely nothing on the small block Chevy valve train is interchangeable with the Packard V8. Quote: Those lunati springs, although require head work, solved my problem and should be good for way mor revs then stock ever was. Yes, every day I modify something to fit the Packard V8 or modify some part of the Packard V8 to fit some replacement part. It's just time and money. My machinist pays $1.89 for a Mopar hydraulic lifter almost indistinguishable from the Packard hydraulic lifter. However, that tiny bit of difference in the radius of the pushrod cup and Kanter gets $12.00 for a lifter. Bottom line - If we don't find hardened Packard retainers still available from one of our vendors at a reasonable price, I'll be buying aftermarket springs and retainers and modifying the head spring seat to accept them. jack vines
Posted on: 2013/8/2 12:19
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Quote:
Bottom line - If we don't find hardened Packard retainers still available from one of our vendors at a reasonable price, I'll be buying aftermarket springs and retainers and modifying the head spring seat to accept them.    
Posted on: 2013/8/2 12:47
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1937 Packard 138-CD Deluxe Touring Limousine
Maroon/Black 1090-1021 [url=https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/View.php?ID=232]1955 Packard |
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
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Nothing then that can't be programmed into a CNC and turned out in tool steel. However, if the diameter of those springs is so special they probably should be changed out to smaller diameter anyway because of frequency problems.
The last one I dinked around with, the machine shop didn't say anything about those springs being so special. The failure at high rpms is probably the pistons hitting the valves and when the spring catches up it hammers on the retainers. That motor was not the worst V-8 that ever came out, but as a high performance toy there are better choices. Oh, and while you're at it throw away those heavy rocker arms because they may also be causing a problem as well. I knew this old timer - Charlie Clancy - and his kids learned to drive on his Caddy 12 Phaeton. Naturally they tried to see how fast it would go and broke a rocker arm. Nothing happened to the motor because it had cast iron pistons (it wasn't an interference engine anyway).
Posted on: 2013/8/2 13:46
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
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Quote:
Nothing then that can't be programmed into a CNC and turned out in tool steel. Could it be done? Certainly; nothing complicated about it. Will it ever be done? Maybe. Affordably? When you get some done for us, let us know the price. Quote: However, if the diameter of those springs is so special they probably should be changed out to smaller diameter anyway because of frequency problems. Why do you think the diameter and the frequency are the problems? Do you have any reference which indicates there is a problem there? I can't remember any. Quote: The failure at high rpms is probably the pistons hitting the valves and when the spring catches up it hammers on the retainers. No, not so. When the soft retainers are replaced with hardened ones, there are then no marks of valves hitting piston. If your theory were at all correct, there would be witness marks at the same RPM, hard or soft retainer. Quote: Oh, and while you're at it throw away those heavy rocker arms because they may also be causing a problem as well. Not so. The Packard V8 rocker arms are relatively light and have never been associated with any of the valve dropping problems. Quote: That motor was not the worst V-8 that ever came out, but as a high performance toy there are better choices. Finally, something on which we agree. However, there are a few rare women even more beautiful than my wife, but I'm in love with her and that's why it doesn't matter. jack vines
Posted on: 2013/8/2 14:33
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
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I'll have to agree with JV on nearly all of his points. Especialy the rockers. They seem very lite to me at least as production engines go.
But i'm not sure what his beef is about relative to MoPar lifter base radius. ****EDIT**** Thanks for the correction JV about the subjest as lifter seat and not the base.
Posted on: 2013/8/2 18:59
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VAPOR LOCK demystified: See paragraph SEVEN of PMCC documentaion as listed in post #11 of the following thread:f
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=7245 |
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Re: Just a few RPMs from total destruction
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Home away from home
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Quote:
But i'm not sure what his beef is about relative to MoPar lifter base radius. Keith, not sure where you got "lifter base radius". What I said was: Quote: that tiny bit of difference in the radius of the pushrod cup The early Mopars, AMC and Packard V8s all used a 1/4" diameter ball end on the pushrods. In the late '50s Mopar changed to a 5/16" diameter end. That slight bit of difference means the older lifters cost 5X as much to buy because the production is so low these days. jack vines
Posted on: 2013/8/2 19:48
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