Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

My 1940 Club Coupe obviously has a replacement VN. Is there any means of determining whether or not the number is correct?

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The number given as a vehicle number is incorrect as it's not in the format of a vehicle number, it's probably a motor number. For 1940 the original vehicle # would have been in the format of "body type" followed by the sequential production number, for example 1392-XXXXX for a 1940 120 5-passenger sedan. "C" is the correct prefix for a 1940 motor number and the 3XXXXX would indicate a "120" motor.

As these cars changed hands and titles over the years, some states occasionally chose to title by motor number, especially if the original vehicle number plate was missing or altered, but without any doubt the original plate gave the vehicle number, not the motor number. Unless you have some old documentation from prior owners it's nearly impossible to recover the original vehicle number as the "patent plate" or vehicle number plate was the only place it was provided on the vehicle.

If you provide us with the "theft-proof" number I can look it up in my database on the remote chance I might have som record of the vehicle. The theft-proof number is the large embossed number on the engine side of the firewall.

PS - assuming your car is a "120", the body type number for a club coupe was 1395 so the original VN would have been 1395-XXXX. One historian estimates about 2580 such club coupes built on the 120 chassis in 1940. The sequential numbering began at 2001 so the last known club coupe would have had the vehicle number of 1395-4580.

Something I learned a few weeks ago-Packard had an unusual font for the numbers and the patent numbers on the plates changed over the years. All these things and others help determine whether the patent plate/numbers are correct for the car. Others know these things better than I

Something I learned a few weeks ago-Packard had an unusual font for the numbers and the patent numbers on the plates changed over the years. All these things and others help determine whether the patent plate/numbers are correct for the car. Others know these things better than I

Something I learned a few weeks ago-Packard had an unusual font for the numbers and the patent numbers on the plates changed over the years. All these things and others help determine whether the patent plate/numbers are correct for the car. Others know these things better than I

Yes, just a study of the patent plates themselves can become a very absorbing endeavor. From another historian I believe I have images of every different one used between 1901 and 1958 and there were many of them (more than 20 not including Canadian plates), sometimes more than 1 style in a given model year. There were also several fonts used, and many interesting curiousities.

Many thanks for all of the information. I have had a good look at the engine side of the firewall and there is no number at all. I did see some weld marks so likely that it was rusted and the wall repaired. So I guess that it is gone forever.

I did find the engine block number as attached.

And yes, mine is a 1940, 120 club coupe 1801.

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There is a picture of my data plate on the registry if that helps. My 120 was a local delivery also. I would attach a copy of the picture if I could.

Fred D

TWB, what you have pictured is the "casting number" and casting date; all engine blocks cast from the same pattern would carry the same number though of course the dates would vary. Your actual motor or engine number, hopefully to match that on your repro patent plate, will be stamped on the distributor side of the motor.

Without digressing too far but on the topic of the patent plate curiosities, here's a couple of interesting features. The first, with the "R" as a suffix, shows the method used prior to 1932 to identify right-hand drive vehicles. I don't know how, or even if, there was any identification for RHD after that. The second picture, courtesy of Mike Grimes, shows something which I believe is particular to the 1936 (14th series) cars, and then only to the senior models and that is the prefix "14th" before the actual VN. Never not seen it on a 14th series senior, never seen it on a 14th series junior, and never seen it on any other series.

PS - The statement in the text of the patent plate about the number of patents was updated and changed frequently, for example:

On late 226/233 and 136/143, also early 326/333 and 236/243 it stated "five hundred" patents.

On late 236/333 and 236/243 thru the early 10th series it stated "six hundred" patents.

On late 10th series thru early 11th series it stated "eleven hundred" patents.

On late 12th series thru early 14th series it stated "twelve hundred" patents.

On late 14th series thru the 15th series it stated "thirteen hundred and fifty" patents.

On the 16th series and thru early 1949 22nd series it gave a partial list of the actual patent numbers involved in the car.

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Thanks for the information. I just looked on the engine and there is absolutely nothing there. I will contact the chap who had the original restoration work done on the engine and see if there is any trace of the engine block plate. And how the number on the repro patent plate was determined.

Thanks again.
-Thom