Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Found this post in the Chat Room. Will PM pab to let him know this is now in the Pre-War Forum.

[pab] 12:34 pm:

I inherited"" a 1935 packard. body number <193285> aluminum block number is 215075 with 430 under in that number. the engine is basket case. body is great and would like to fined an engine. any help what to do.

If I recollect correctly, there may have been a 35 320 on eBay recently. I do not remember if it sold or not.

Finding one of these engines in bolt-in ready to run condition is truly a long shot. They are extremely cantankerous. A running engine would be much more economical than building a basket case, but a gamble on internal condition. If you do find one, drop the oil pan and carefully inspect the connecting rod bearings for fracturing and flaking.

These are very challenging engines to rebuild. There are inherent connecting rod bearing issues. I believe 35 was the first year for insert rod bearings in this engine. They were a very problematic component. Replacement rod bearings at this time are unavailable in any size, way, shape, or form. There is an upgrade that can be performed to run a modern bearing, but the operation requires a great deal of skill, and proper equipment, and is not for the faint hearted.

The crankshaft is not built in a conventional fashion. It has removable counter-weights. If re-grinding is necessary, there are but few crank grinding establishments capable of doing the job from start to finish.

Some parts are available through Egge Machine such as the rocker arm rollers and pins. Pistons & ring sets (excellent quality I might add), and gaskets as well. Some parts are near impossible for this engine as well.

When assembled and tuned properly, they are a wonderful engine. This is not a cheap rebuild, nor easy, but very gratifying when completed properly.

Best of luck,
Jim

It's long been rumored that Max Merritt was going to have the main and original style flanged rod bearings remanufactured for either the 320 or the 385 or both engines. I don't know if this ever happened but it's worth a call to find the current status.

Grinding the cranks of these is somewhat similar to the 356 engines where you've got to mill out the bolt heads retaining the counterweights, and later buy/make new ones to reattach. Though no shops like to do it and no doubt some can't or shouldn't be allowed to, there are several around here in NJ that can take the job on. In any event, not a trivial or inexpensive job.

Yes, the Max Merritt folks have made the "bearings coming soon" claim for about two years that I know of. I left my name on the list about a year or more ago, never got a call. That is one reason I took the plunge and converted to modern bearings. The other reason of course is the inherent failure prone thin shell design. They were just not a long-term component in these applications. I have seen to many examples of these bearings that have failed due to poor heat transfer and bearing / shell separation to fool with them. There is a fellow in the San Fernando Valley (Calif.) who is attempting to reproduce them in a .030 undersize and sell with the idea of buyers having machined to size. Not sure if that has materialized yet or not.

Another post in the Chat Room by pab, I'll PM him again.

[pab] 1:12 am:

hello, I have that 35 body number <193285> was this car suppose to have a super eight in it?

My initial assumption was this probably had the 320. I could be wrong, as both the 320 & 385 were available in 35. If this is a 385 I may have a lead on a '34 385 here in Arizona. I do not think the engine can be determined by the body number. The determination should be able to be made by checking external dimensions of the crankcase.

The 1934 engine, both 320 and 385, can be instantly recognized by the one-year only oil cooler mounted to the water jacket plate. And of course 1934 was the last year for babbitt bearings.

O_D

That is an interesting anomaly in the '34 320 / 385 engines. If my recollection is correct the 385 that is available here in Arizona is a '34. This fellow that Mel is posting the thread for is unsure of what engine his car was equipped with.

I know very little about the 385 engines. Maybe you could answer a curious thought that occurred to me, did the '35 / '36 385 get the same style flanged thin wall inserts as the 320 or were they more durable due to the bigger dimensions?

Packard seemed to struggle a little with connecting rod / bearing design at that time in their history. The rod bolts seem so close to the rod bore for no great reason. The finned caps are bizarre. The 12 rod seems to be of high quality, but for the life of me, I can't imagine why they would have forged the bolts integral with the rod assembly. It seems like this rendered the rod assembly disposable once the bolt stretched, or the bolt / rod damaged.

I will admit, these engines are a step ahead of most of their flathead contemporaries of that period.

The main and rod bearing journals are the same diameter in the 320 and 385 engines but the 320 and 385 engines have different bearing numbers so I assume they are wider in the larger engine, but are both of the flanged design to control sideplay. A common practice when converting to simple non-flanged shells on the rods is to weld "tits" on the side of the rods and mill to dimension to provide side-play control. The braze or weld-to-steel contact rather than bearing metal-to-steel apparently hasn't compromised the success of these conversions.

The finned rods were a 1934 innovation along with the first use of the oil cooler or heat exchanger and full-flow oil filter to provide better life for the babbitt. I don't have the experience to tell whether an actual improvement in bearing life resulted over 1933 but my 34 Eight (320 engine) ran about 85,000 miles on the original babbitt rods with the exception of #8 which was rebabbitted at about 53,000 miles.

Motor's Manual (12th edition) indicates that for the 320 and 385 engines after the adoption of insert bearings (1935-39), crankshafts were finished 0.0005 (half-thousandths) different depending on whether copper-lead or cadmium-silver bearings were fitted. I haven't checked other sources to see if this information is consistent.

I have a 35 320 engine. It is in good shape. But has not been run in many years. I also have built a 33, 34, 37, 38, 39 all 320s.

If you're interested let me know. My direct e-mail is dbaird@semo.edu