Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

One for the experts. This is a picture of the data plate on the Packard 12 Limo to be auctioned shortly by the Gosford Motor Museum.

Opinions on whether it is a genuine or reproduction plate? The car serial number font does not look like others I've seen. Perhaps they were different in 1939?

The history of this car is very cloudy. It appears to be a US import and possibly an older restoration.It has a sticker on the screen for a restoration shop in Santa Ana, CA and a Packards International club sticker.

Cheers

Brian

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I would assume that the shop you are talking about in Santa Ana is Custom Auto Service owned by Robert Escalante (1-714-543-2980). You could email Robert. I'm sure he would be willing to provide more info on the car.

Good Morning...Robert is a great guy and will be interested in where the car is today. If it came through his shop at Third and French in Santa Ana, California...He will have information on it. Robert started in the shop washing parts and years along purchased the business so his memory goes back quite a ways...He also runs 'Packards International' and the fact that the car is now in Australia might mean a story for his magazine...Ernie in Arizona

Well, that's a thought-provoking patent plate, to say the least. The general tag style is correct for a 1939 Twelve, it was used from the 16th Series (as a decal for Detroit production) thru the 22nd Series with of course appropriate changes in the actual patent numbers, and they were sourced in both tinned steel and aluminum.

The font is a bit of a puzzle and not what one would expect to see, I have seen what I believe to be that font and size used on postwar Packard patent plates and also on one or more prewar Canadian-built junior Packards and other early Packards but that doesn't necessarily mean it's correct or incorrect for the plate in question, it was obviously available to Packard whether it was or was not the correct one to use at that time. To quote Packard historian Arthur Balfour, "when it comes to Packard, never say never".

As to the stamping itself, it looks as if the 4th and 8 digits were afterthoughts and not stamped at the same time as the other 6 digits. Here's a possibility to ponder: at the point of initial body assembly Packard did not know if the vehicle was to be completed as a 1234 or the very similar 1235 so the plate was stamped incompletely and finished later when that decision was made. Sound plausible? Both 1234-2078 and 1235-2113 have survived and are available locally to me for examination of their plates which I'll try to accomplish soon.

FWIW, from what's visible of the theft-proof number, this body is a new-for-1939 Twelve body (as are those of the two cars noted in the previous paragraph), as opposed to a left-over 1938 Twelve body which about half of the 1939 Twelves had. Possibly that has a bearing of the font and stamping.

And what a shame someone carelessly mutilated the plate, looks like perhaps a solvent-wetted finger or cloth was swipted across the data section.

Here is a known genuine from a car that was owned by a former Packard employee.

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Thanks for that. I tried emailing Robert via Custom Auto Services a while back, but didn't hear back. I'll try again!

Cheers Brian

Thanks Dave

I knew you'd throw some light on this.

I don't think there's much doubt about the car itself. It's quite original - possibly an older restoration. Tried to contact Robert Escalante after I saw the Custom Auto Service sticker on it. Didn't hear back, but will try again.

Interesting theory you put forward regarding the vehicle number being stamped in two bites. Yes, that's plausible. As you can see from the plate, it was supposedly delivered new in Chicago.

You're the expert on tpn's, so I'll take you word that this looks like a 1939 number. I don't doubt that it is.

What bothers me about the data plate is the "1". Other original 1939 plates I've seen show the exaggerated "I" with bars top and bottom. Like the example in the reply to my query. You mention that different fonts have turned up at various times.

Of course, if it is a reproduction it does not necessarily mean the contents are incorrect.

Many thanks

Brian

Thanks for that. Very helpful.

Well, that's a well worn plate! It clearly shows what I was concerned about. The "1" is quite different to the plate in my picture, which raises questions about its originality.

Regards

Brian

Thanks to everyone for the helpful responses to my question. I have learned the ownership history of this car from Peter Toet in Canberra, who is a walking encyclopaedia on the V12 cars in Australia!

This car was imported many years ago from the US and restored by Max Hood (a longstanding Packard Australia club member who has since passed away) then owned and fully road registered by collector Andrew Lidden. It was purchased around 2016 from Andrew's estate by the Gosford Classic Car Museum and is now up for auction. It is very similar (although possibly not as good as) the car sold last November at the Mecum Las Vegas auction for US$43,600. (That was reputedly 1235-1208. Doesn't sound right, either).

There is still a question mark over the originality of the data plate on the Gosford car. Responses so far suggest it's probably a reproduction. There is no documentation at all with the car except for an Owner's Manual.

Dave, for your records this car is TPN 476828. If the data plate is correct, it's 1235-2107.

Thanks again

Brian

Here's mine:

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