Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Gosh, thanks guys, but all I really wanted to know was the difference between the 331 Cadillac and the "Kettering" Olds V8 and how a "big block" gets defined as such vs. a "small block." Also, the wedge head or wedge shaped combustion chamber of the Packard, and whether it was prevalent in early OHV V8's, seeing that Chrysler Corp. made such a beg deal out of it in the 60's.

Not really yes-no questions, and just a hint of a prayer for an answer.
Nothin' here about a pump at all. Anybody here say pump?

As for whether I can take "no" for an answer, well yes.

By the way, this is the spittin' image of our old 400, from the paint to the upholstery.

Just thought we needed a picture here for variety.

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The 440 owes it's lineage to the 350,361, of 1958, which are "low blocks", "B" engine, and the 413 of 1959, which was a raised block, or "RB" engine. When Chrysler wanted to increase stroke, they just added it to the deck surface of the block.

Of all the intake manifolds I've come across over the years, Big block Chrysler is the closest I've come to find to fitting the Packard V8. The only real problem in getting one to fit a Packard is the angle on the heads where the intake bolts. On a Packard it's a perfect 90 degrees, on a Mopar engine, it's more like 72 degrees.

The big block Chevy got it's valve arrangement directly from the old Polysphere 270 that came out in the 1955 Plymouth. I've yet to see an original idea to come out of GM, other than how to NOT run a company, but this I feel they stole from Packard. For example, a Polysphere Mopar head:






And a BB Chevy head:

55packardguy writes:
"and how a "big block" gets defined as such vs. a "small block."


To answer your question:

The term big block in most cases refers to production engines of greater displacement than 350-400 Cubic inches. Certainly anything over 400 CID is a big block in just about any arena. There is some wiggle room on this depending on manufactureer.

i never remeber the terms "big block" and "small block" ever as a reference prior to about the late-60's when engine displacement suddenlty started jumping near 400CID and over.

"big block" and "small block" are more or less hot-rodders slang terms that have caught on over the years and usualy some knowledge of the entire V8 line of engines for any particular manufacturer is a prerequisite to understanding the meaning.

In all cases a big block engine will be dimensionaly larger than a small block in overall exterior dimensions and weight.

Big block vs small block terminaology is strictly within a particular manufacturer.

Since Packard V8's are all the same block, with ONLY a bore change then the term "big block" or "small Block" really does not apply to the Packard V8. However, since the Packard V8 is a very heavy and relatively large displacement engine, then it could be refered to as a big block depending on the scope of the conversation between participants.

An ambiguous term then, as I kind of thought it was. Maybe it all started with the rabid Chevy-heads as a way to distinguish the smaller engines based on the original 260-283-302-305-307-327-350-400 (did I leave any out?) and the aforementioned post-"W" truck-based engines displacing 396-402-409-427-454 (again did I leave any out?), or what are sometimes referred to as "Mouse" and "Rat" motors, and the virtues/flaws of which are continuously debated both between and within their ranks. I think this debate was purposely fueled by GM/Chevrolet through production of way more permutations than needed. Up to and including one that may not have existed, the 396, supposedly to meet ci vs weight "rules" and the 400, trying squeeze too many ci in too small of a package, siamesed bores and all (in spite of which many defend it as a "great engine)."

I'd say anything with the potential to legitimately be bored and stroked to over 400 cid, such as the Packard, would qualify as a "big block." But big blocks are also associated with truck engines, and I think the large displacement engines designed for use in automobiles should have their own category, which would leave the Chevy big-block sitting where it should be IMHO-- in front of a truck.

Still wondering how many true "wedge" heads existed in the OHV V8 ranks at the time of the Packard V8.

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Eric,

I think you meant to say Chrysler/Plymouth, much as I'd like to hang this on a theft from Packard by GM, thus redeeming this thread's topic.

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Eric's tangled syntax was tongue-in-cheek - Packard was an example of how not to run a company and GM stole that model.

thnx, jack vines

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262 (1975-1976, its heads were passed on to the 305)
265 (1955-1957, the first SBC)
267 (1979-1981)

I never heard of a 260 SBC, perhaps you meant 265.

If you wanna include crate motors, you can also buy a factory-built 383 stroker - a 350 block with a 400 crankshaft turned-down to fit the 350 mains.

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The W-series BBC engines included 348-409-427, but the next generation, Mark IV, series was offered, over the years, in 396-402-427-454-502-572. 502 and 572 were available only as a crate motors - marketed for performance use. Mark IV also included 366 and 427 variants with a raised deck that were used only in medium-duty truck applications. The 454 introduced in the 1990s was a Gen V motor.

Guy, nope, I meant GM.

Jack, wasn't meant to be tongue in cheek, it was meant as a direct jab at the management of Generic Motors. At least Chrysler builds something interesting. GM is now where Chrysler was in the 80's. GM never had an original idea.

Eric, I share your distain for GM, but come on now and give the devil it's due. they have had many, many original ideas; I think it more accurate to say they haven't had enough recently (as in the last decade or two).

Brian,

Don't want no crate motors, think I had all the rest of the post-w bb's. Those '70s and '80s sure produced a couple of oddballs I never heard of. Sorry, I thought the "original" was a 260. I think my brain crossed over to Ford at that point.

That still leaves out the "original small-block" question, though.

Was it the Cadillac 331 or the Oldsmobile "Kettering?"

And who can dig up something groundbreaking on the '55 Packard? Other than it's short-lived title as the biggest and baddest?