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revisiting starting issues on 2126
#1
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custo eight
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Still working on starting circuit for 2126.
Temporarily removed the carburetor starting switch from circuit and wired a push button switch to energize the starter solenoid. Starter was at shop for checkout and bendix was proven. with push button switch connected to solenoid and hot lead and all grounds connected, couldnt get spark out of coil which had been replaced earlier. After about an hour of trying to find spark, the starter stopped responding to the push button switch. Nothing....
arced from the small terminal on hot side of solenoid directly to the hot battery lead terminal on starter by passing the push button switch entirely. got a spark there but no response from starter. The harness sent from Narraganset Wire (five years ago) shows a fuse from solenoid wiring to voltage regulator but I cannot find that fuse anywhere. Any suggestions as to:
bad starter solenoid? (recent development)
bad fuse in circuit somewhere?
any other tests to run to troubleshoot.
We tried with ignition on and with ignition off.
Signed"Sleepless in Seatle"...actually SC.

Posted on: 2023/8/6 13:26
Where principles are involved, be deaf to expediency. (Matthew Fontaine Maury 18th century oceanographer)
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Re: revisiting starting issues on 2126
#2
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BigKev
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If you shorted between the battery hot termjnal and small lug on the solenoid, they should be at least a click or something noise of the solenoid engaging. If not the solenoid is bad. If you hear the click and there is not starter action, then the starter is bad, assuming the battery is fully charged. Only other issue would be is if you had a bad or missing ground strap between the engine and the body.

Posted on: 2023/8/6 13:41
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: revisiting starting issues on 2126
#3
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HH56
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There is a relay inside the Autolite gear reduction starter solenoid assembly that is powered by the starter switch or pushbutton. When the relay comes in it is what actually commands the solenoid to pull in. If the car still has the safety circuit intact, ground to the relay is provided by going thru the generator armature windings and brushes. One of the brushes is connected to ground which is ultimately where ground for the relay coil is found. All generator wiring must be connected and brushes in good shape for that circuit to work. Some cars have had the circuit bypassed by disconnecting the wire from one of the small relay coil terminals on the solenoid from the ARM terminal of the regulator and connecting it directly to the block to provide the ground. The other terminal still goes to the starter switch.

The solenoid for the Autolite gear reduction starter has two coils that get power from the relay at the same time -- a pull in coil and a hold coil. The pull in coil gets its ground thru the windings of the starter motor so that connection and brushes inside the motor need to be good. Once the pull in coil does its job and has the solenoid plunger pulled in so the copper disc makes the connection with the terminals to provide the battery voltage to the motor, that battery connection effectively puts the same voltage on both sides of the pull in coil so it turns off and is no longer able to work. The solenoid is then kept in position by the energized hold coil which is grounded to the solenoid case. It will keep the plunger pulled in and motor spinning until the start switch or pushbutton is released and relay drops out. The hold coil by itself does not have the power to pull in the solenoid.

If the solenoid has not been reconditioned there is a possibility wear and arcing or burning of the copper disc or more likely, the copper end of the large terminals where the connection is made could be causing the no engagement. The bottom illustration where the arrows point to the switch contact gap shows the area where wear is prevalent. Sometimes there is a semicircular spot worn by the contact disc on one or both terminals that is so deep the disc can no longer make contact.

On the fuse, are you sure it is between the solenoid and voltage regulator or could it instead be between the solenoid and overdrive relay.

Attach file:



jpg  47 starter circuit.JPG (86.58 KB)
209_64cfef2de0c48.jpg 1000X797 px

jpg  Autolite solenoid.jpg (86.56 KB)
209_64cff06fad314.jpg 914X732 px

Posted on: 2023/8/6 13:45
Howard
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Re: revisiting starting issues on 2126
#4
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custo eight
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Thank you, between your post and Howards below, I think I have a bad solenoid. I'll try to get it replaced this week along with a coil and a coil>distributer wire.
new points and condenser, volage regulator and OD relay. narrowing it down.

Posted on: 2023/8/6 20:08
Where principles are involved, be deaf to expediency. (Matthew Fontaine Maury 18th century oceanographer)
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Re: revisiting starting issues on 2126
#5
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custo eight
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Thanks again Howard and all the help along the way with my 55 400 and this 2126. A great source of the obscure information rapidly disappearing I'm afraid...

Posted on: 2023/8/6 20:10
Where principles are involved, be deaf to expediency. (Matthew Fontaine Maury 18th century oceanographer)
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Re: revisiting starting issues on 2126
#6
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Fish'n Jim
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Somethings confused. No spark from the coil has not much to do with the selenoid, unless wiring is messed up?
Try working on each one separately until it's resolved than try to get everything going together. Otherwise, pattern for headaches.
Recall this is 6VDC positive ground so everything is reversed unless it was changed and those conversions sometimes aren't done well. If you're sticking + wires to - you got issues. I think they used red wire for -, vs 12 it's +.
When I got the 23 going, the carb starter was not functioning. I simply made a jumper for those terminal connections to by-pass it.
But I car no ignition key, so I had to wire up a uni-switch with a start position.
IF the push button isn't load rated, that can be an issue why it's failing. The usual 12 VDC off the shelf PB may not have the amp rating needed for 6VDC.
I'm in SC but in the opposite direction so not close help.

Posted on: 2023/8/6 20:12
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