Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

Hi Folks,

I am looking at TSB 56T-20 which addresses the kind of oil pressure problems people seem to be experiencing with the V-8 motor.

It calls for a revison on the oil pump and a new camshaft thrust plate.

Has anyone tried this method?

Thanks,

Lots of discussion on this subject here. If you do a search for v8 oil pump, should be a lot of hits. Packards1 has one of these first tube kits on his ebay store now. Believe one member (Jack Vines ???) was making the thrust plate. There was also apparently a later design pump. Believe the conclusion was while they might help, none of them very effective in solving the problem.

There is an adapter kit available for the Packard V8. The kit allows u to buy your own NEW (not rebuilt) Olds HEAVY DUTY oil pump for about 50 bucks and bolt it to the Packard using the adapter plate in the kit. The vacuum pump is eleminated with this conversion.

Do a search of this web site for more info as HH56 recommends.

Here is one link:
packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb ... orum=3&post_id=18010#forumpost18010

Remark: Ignore a few of the posts (some by me) that are strictly diatribe. There is alot of info on this topic in other threads too. Just do a search. This was an ongoing debate and group effort for about 8 years spanning 3 different web sites. It'll keep u reading for HOURS!! If u digest all that is in the various oil pump threads u will know just about everything there is to know about the Packard V8 oil pump and it's other oiling issues.

DO KEEP us posted on what u decide. And your progress. I'll be happy to answer your questions. I'll private message my phone number to u if u want to talk v2v.

What makes u think it has low oil pressure and what do u call low????? Is it because of lifter clatter????

STB 56T-20 represents the last in a series of changes that the factory made to address various oiling issues in the Packard V8. It may not be the last word, however.

By that time, engineers concluded that the specifially described lifter noise was the result of the pressure relief valve sticking, momentarily, and allowing air to be drawn in through the pressure relief valve port. Prior to publishing this STB, a field trial was conducted that involved plugging that port on vehicles exhibiting this condition. It must have had some effect as the oil pump body was then redesigned for production with a plugged port - among other changes in the relief valve. However, for field service they did not recommend installing the second design pump, nor did they recommend plugging the existing pump. Instead, they settled on installing a sump tube for the port - hoping to suck more oil than air if the valve got stuck. The redesigned camshaft thrust plate and spacer was another attempt to manipulate oil flow - this time, reducing supply to the timing chain in favor of boosting pressure to the lifters, which had previously been superceded, in both production and service, with units having larger oil reservoirs.

In 1975, Packards International announced a program for repairing the V8 oil pumps - alleging that the vacuum pump body warped under load, allowing air into the oil pump. The process involves removal of the vacuum pump and separator plate, and replacing them with a flat steel plate with a bushing to support the bottom end of the oil pump driving shaft. The stock driving shaft apparently has enough length to allow the driving gear to be pressed up the shaft, lowering the end of the shaft into the new bushing.

Personally, I never bought into the reasoning behind that modification. Curiously, the '56 Golden Hawk used the Packard V8 oil pump but without the vacuum pump; yet, Studebaker Service Letter No. 936 specifically recommended the use of the sump tube kit and thrust plate and spacer to address similar engine noise complaints. Then, I've read/heard from other owners who still had the lifter noise after having their oil pump modified as described above.

The late Bob Aller, a former former Packard field service manager, also maintained that there was no problem with the vacuum pump. He had a fix of his own, but wasn't very forthcoming with details when I asked him. I later learned from others that he was addressing wear in the oil pump body between driving shaft and its bore by truing up the existing shaft and boring the pump body to accommodate a bushing, where none had been previously. I've heard from other owners that Terrill Machine (of TX) also performed a similar service. What we don't know is why that wear occurs - often prematurely.

Meanwhile, we did hear, in another forum past, from one owner who still experienced lifter noise and low oil pressure after installing a pump fixed by Aller. The pump was sent back and found to be in proper working order. Upon further inspection the owner found excessive wear in the crankshaft bearings.

In more recent years, as cited above by PackardV8, a adapter kit was developed to fit a high-volume version of an oil pump for the Olds V8 to the Packard V8. I bought one, but will probably never install it.

You see, my father purchased a '56 Exec brand-new and never experienced any sort of lifter noise in the nearly 75,000 miles he put on the car before parking it in a field - due to other issues. Though I've yet to perform an autopsy on that engine, I strongly suspect it falls in the "second design" category.

Though I've not yet rebuilt any of my Packard V8s, I'm inclined to bush the pump as Aller did and, if not of the factory-plugged design, install a sump tube kit - just to be safe. I'd also install the revised thrust plate and spacer. Then, I'm tempted to carve a little channel in the oil pump body, above the driving gear, to provide lubricate the driving shaft - such as our member PackardV8 discovered in the oil pump for the venerable small-block Chevy V8. Of course, all that work would be in addition to exercising due diligence WRT all other aspects of the oiling system.

Thank you Brian for the summary of the early "fixes" relating to the Packard oil pump problem. That is historically interesting.

So what is the point of this essay? The Olds oil pump and adapter solves the problem 100% of the time. No one will ever drop the pan on any Packard V-8 to see if you have an "original" pump, so no one will ever lose points at any judged meet.

To me this is like retaining the BTV. It probably works most of the time, but when it fails: (1) BTV: you crash due to failed brakes or (2) oil pump: your engine blows up because of lack of oil. But, you are "original" for whatever that is worth in the context of the previous two failures.

Also, Jack Vines has taken over production (from me) of the Melling Olds oil pump adapter kit production. So, you can buy everything you need from Jack. I believe that it will solve every oiling problem you will ever have with your Packard V-8 short of catastrophic failure of something not related (which does happen occasionally). Go elsewhere at your own hazard.

Craig

BH writes:
"I later learned from others that he (ALler) was addressing wear in the oil pump body between driving shaft and its bore by truing up the existing shaft and boring the pump body to accommodate a bushing, where none had been previously. I've heard from other owners that Terrill Machine (of TX) also performed a similar service. What we don't know is why that wear occurs - often prematurely"

Of course no Aller nor Terrill pumps have been examined yet.
But i doubt that any bushing was installed. Most likely the bore of the pump was simply bored to .501 or .502 inch and a standard .500 shaft installed. The gears bored to accomodate the larger shaft. Stock Packard shaft is .492 inch.

I examined the Terrill pump when it was returned. It had a bronze bushing installed and either the shaft repaired or a new one made. It has seen service since sometime in the 80's.

I examined the Aller pump when I got it back and it also had a bronze bushing installed. It only has about a half hour of running time.
Please don't make statements that are obviously in error. Many other people have looked at Terrill pumps and Aller pumps over several years. To state that they haven't been examined is obviously wrong.

FWIW, I've done everything mentioned above to the oiling system of Packard V8s.

1. The second-design cam retainer plate and spacer is still available from me and no one should rebuild an engine without it.

2. Quote: FWIW, I'm 99% sure the wear is caused by harmonics in the very long driveshaft caused by the loose-fitting-two-flat-drive-tangs. Most modern oil pumps, including the Oldsmobile, use a hex-drive which fits tighter and doesn't have the stop-start of the two flats. This oscillation works on the too-short bearing in the top of the oil pump body and wears it. When the oil level drops below the level of the top of the pump, it wears even more rapidly.

I designed a fix for the above problem. I've got four or five OEM pumps which I've re-designed by making an extended bushing for the pump body and made a 1/2" thick cast iron bottom cover with a bushing bore for the bottom end of the driven shaft and a new drive shaft. The result is three times the bearing area for the drive/driven shaft. They seem to work fine, but the cost is far more than the Oldsmobile pump conversion. I haven't offered them for sale because they cost me $300 to build and offer no real advantages over the Oldsmobile conversion.

3. I'm looking into reproducing the dip tube kit for those who insist on keeping their vacuum pump. It isn't rocket science to build these. If an engine has been completely rebuilt and is tight and the OEM oil pump has been rebuilt and it has the second design cam retainer plate and spacer and the dip tube, it will probably not have lifter click.

4. The Oldsmobile oil pump conversion kit is in the QC stage, prior to full CNC production and should be on sale again soon.

thnx, jack vines