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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Are all windows out? If so, would suspect the relay or breaker and maybe the seat supply is not coming off relay as it should after all.
If only one window, then each switch has a feed via the separate window loom and is independent. The drivers switch contacts are in parallel with the individual door switch contacts. If power is present & no mechanical damage, one switch at least should work. Only one wire to motor is hot at a time -- black or yellow-- and motor case is grounded to complete the circuit. The switches plug into a connector which is prone to falling off. If it has overheated, the connector can melt and deform letting the wires lose contact with the switch pins. If a single switch might check there. Of course, there is also the dirty/damaged mechanism or burned out motor to rule out too but unlikely all would be that way.
Posted on: 2012/3/7 23:31
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Howard
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Home away from home
 
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OK, folks, this may sound a bit crazy, but I swear it happened. I started working on resolving my power window problems yesterday. The temperature hit 70 degrees with little or no wind so working outside was rather pleasant. The Patrician and its assorted parts and tools take up the garage so the 400 work must be done outside.
I located an NOS Delco-Remy relay that I was planning to use as a replacement and after disconnecting the positive ground from the battery, I tried the screws holding the old relay in place. Naturally, they were stuck tight, even the ones holding the wires for the power windows and seats. Well, I thought I'd hit the connections with some PB Blaster and wait a while for it to work before I tried again. I didn't want to strip or bung up the screw heads. While waiting for the PB Blaster to work its magic, I busied myself with other chores. As I was getting ready to try again to remove the old relay and replace it with the NOS one, a thought hit me. One of the claims that PB Blaster makes is that it cleans up rusty electrical connections. Thinking it was worth a try, I re-connected the positive ground to the battery, turned the ignition key to the "acc' position and tried all four of the power window switches on the driver's door - nothing. Then I reached over and tried the switch on the passenger's door. To my amazement, the window went down, rather quickly. Cautiously, I tried the switch again and the window went up. Testing the two rear quarter windows, I could hear the motors running but there was some resistance preventing the windows from working. Still, the power problem appeared solved. Removing the trim panels from the driver's door quickly revealed the problem with the switch on that door - it wasn't connected. Connecting the wire block to the back of the switch remedied that problem and all four switches on the master appeared to work. However, with the sole exception of the passenger's door window, none of the other windows were operative, although I could hear the motors trying to move them. An inspection of the inside of the driver's door revealed a number of pieces of wood of various sizes, one of which was screwed into the door and propped up the driver's door window in the up position. Removing that piece of wood freed the window, which now operated with the switch, but would only rise about 1/3 of the way to its top position. I then discovered that the window was out of its rear track, so that has to be remedied. Unfortunately, I ran out of time at this point and had to call it a day as other duties called. From what I can see in the service manual, it doesn't appear to be a difficult chore to remove the window from the door of a hardtop and then re-set it. Since I'm planning on eventually replacing all of the side glass in the 400 anyway, I'm figuring that this will be a good skill to learn. I'm hoping that Saturday will be nice enough to work outside and I can get some more progress on the power windows under my belt. With a bit of luck, some additional photos to post, also.
Posted on: 2012/3/9 15:59
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PA Patrician (Tim Wile)
[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia][url=https://packardinfo.c |
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Forum Ambassador
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The connector being off is not surprising. Sometimes a good slam of the door will knock them loose--more often because the wires have gotten stiff or a loose clamp allowed them to work themselves back into the rubber conduit and get a bit too short. With all the wood being in the door, hard to say if yours fell or was just left off.
On the quarters, the mechanism can appear somewhat taxed even in the best of times. There is a lot of leverage required to lift and pivot the heavy window so needs quite a bit of force. With the way the bar attaches to window & body and a somewhat short link, the regulator does not have much mechanical advantage to make everything move. If the lube has dried or something is binding, motor could be right at the point of max capability & not able to move anything. I would remove the seat & quarter panels, check around for more wood and for anything loose or bent and then lube the heck out of things before trying to move them too many more times. Also check the upper track or groove below the roof the window slides in. If the fabric is torn and bunched it can put a lot of strain on the window. Half of the reduction worm drive is formed in the shaft at end of armature. Unless I actually threw something away, I have at least one junk motor around where that section has twisted off. Depending on where a break occured, the motor may or may not run -- but at any rate, nothing happens with the window. Hopefully your motors are OK and something has just come undone.
Posted on: 2012/3/9 16:43
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Howard
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Home away from home
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Another beautiful pre-spring day here in the Commonwealth provided a great opportunity to do some more work on the Four Hundred.
I thought it would be a relatively easy thing to remove the window and frame from the driver's side door and then re-install it back into its proper channel so that the power window would work properly. Well, I was half right. Following the directions in the service manual, removing the window was relatively easy. The spring clips on the regulator pins came off fairly easy and the window came out without much difficulty. So far, so good. When I went to re-install the window and ensure it was in the proper channels, problems began. First, installing the window in a hardtop according to the service manual was anything but easy. I noted that the illustrations in the manual were of a sedan window, which is somewhat different than a hardtop. Placing the window into the door at a 90 degree angle to its proper placement and then rotating it into its respective channels simply didn't happen - no matter which way I dropped the window into the door. After some effort, I did manage to get the errant window into the door and in its proper channels. Re-installing the regulator pins was relatively straight-forward, I thought. I then re-installed the power window switch and tried to raise the window. Surprise! Not only did the window not go up, it cocked somewhat and slipped once again out of its rear channel.  Now the driver's door window is stuck in the down position and I did not wish to try and burn out the motor trying to move it. I can probably muscle it free but at that point I decided discretion was the better part of valour and moved on to some other chores. I think it better to cool down before doing some additional work on that window. I mentioned earlier that I want to replace the heater core as I'm not really happy with the one the previous owner put into the car. The hose connections are somewhat mishapened and the unit itself looks as if it was just pulled out of another car and bolted into this one. I have a spare unit that I dis-assembled after some effort and liberal amounts of PB Blaster on the sheet metal screws. The core itself is good and I want to get rid of the rust inside and outside of the box itself and re-do the rubber on the flapper, which is coming off at both ends. After getting the box apart and cleaning up the pieces, a few blasts of compressed air blew off what remaining rust there was and the parts were ready for priming. I'm planning on giving them one coat of primer and two coats of finish. Hopefully, that will be enough to keep the rust at bay for a few years. While working on the heater core box, I also prepared to upper portion of the air cleaner for re-painting. There was only light surface rust on it so cleaning it up wasn't that big of a chore. The highlight of the day was when I took the Four Hundred out for a short spin around the block. This is the first time that I had the 400 on the road since I bought it and it was nice to actually drive it. I noticed several times that the right rear brake seemed to hang up after I stopped and I'm hoping that isn't the sign of something serious. I did use the parking brake once and noted that it hung up when I tried to move the car forward, releasing with a loud bang. I've avoided using the manual brake since, but this could be a residual issue. Any thoughts on this one?  Attach file:  (91.44 KB) (95.04 KB) (44.04 KB) (57.04 KB) (79.92 KB)
Posted on: 2012/3/11 19:40
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PA Patrician (Tim Wile)
[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia][url=https://packardinfo.c |
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Forum Ambassador
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Are the welds holding the the rear channel retainer to the adjusting nut plates OK--particularly the bottom one. Those welds breaking loose was a known issue. Also the condition of the felt inside the channels at both ends. If torn it can bunch and cause the window to hang and tilt enough to come out or if worn bare, maybe clearance to window a bit wide with same results.
Posted on: 2012/3/11 20:31
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Howard
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Home away from home
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Howard, one of the first things I did when I removed the driver's side window was to check the condition of the felt in the channels. The felt was good down to the end of the channel. Before re-installing the regulator, I worked the window by hand and it appeared to work fine. You could have something about the adjustment, though. The clearance seemed a bit sloppy, come to think of it. I've read some stuff in the service manual about adjusting that. Also, from the looks of the screws and bolts on the inside of the door, it appears that the channel has been messed with before. Also, when I removed the trim panel, the plates covering the access holes were missing . . . hmmmm
Thanks for the tips. They are greatly appreciated. 
Posted on: 2012/3/11 21:54
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PA Patrician (Tim Wile)
[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia][url=https://packardinfo.c |
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Forum Ambassador
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If the windows are sloppy some other things to look for.
One is the inside width of the channel. If someone has been in there and changed them, it might be possible the wrong one was installed. Sedans are the same but IIRC, on hardtops the front channel carrying the glass is wider than the back which only carries a narrow metal strip attached to the guide piece. Don't know if the wide will fit the retainer in back but worth checking anyway. Another is protruding rivets in the channel or if replaced, maybe screws. If one has loosened and worked it's way into the channel either glass or the guide piece can get caught on it. Usually they stick out enough the glass just stops but sometimes if not severe, will catch enough and can tip the window out.
Posted on: 2012/3/11 22:24
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Howard
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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WRT the brake issue on the 400, it could be any number of things: parking brake cable binding, weak return springs, sticky wheel cylinder, fluid-soaked linings, etc.
Brace yourself, as you're gonna need to pull the drum for visual inspection and perhaps other work, but you've been down that road with the Pat. Be sure to place the car such that you can get it up high enough on jackstands in the event that under-car work is needed - for example, parking brake cable service.
Posted on: 2012/3/11 23:03
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Re: Wile Family's Second Packard
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Home away from home
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A simply lovely final day of winter so I thought I would take the 400 out for another test drive around the neighbourhood. Unfortunately, the transmission shift lever is stuck in neutral! I've seen discussions of where Dual Ultramatics have been stuck in Park, but never in neutral. In fact, I cannot move the shift lever into park, it only goes as far as neutral, and now it is stuck there. I'm wondering if the problem is loss or damaged linkage or this could be the harbinger of more serious problems? I've also noticed that the 400 has no reverse lights when it was in reverse. I've compared the 400 with the Patrician and when the Patrician's transmission is placed into reverse, the reverse lights illuminate - the 400's don't. Of course, now, I can't get the transmission lever out of "neutral." The top photo shows the transmission indicator as far left as it will go.
The middle two photos show the mis-aligned driver's door window. The last photo is just a cheesecake shot of the 400 after its weekly drive. BTW, I have confirmed that the car is in "neutral" rather than "park" since the car does roll some distance which I believe wouldn't be possible if the transmission was in "park." Any thoughts out there before I start to check out the shift linkage?  PostScript: After some vigorous rocking back and forth, I managed to get the transmission linkage to shift and I took the 400 for its weekly jaunt around the block. I'm still hearing scraping noises from the passenger's rear wheel so I fear I have no alternative but to pull the hub and check out what is going on with the brakes. At least I have some experience in working on Packard brakes from my trials and tribulations with the Patrician. Attach file: (105.52 KB) (56.71 KB) (47.58 KB) (97.64 KB)
Posted on: 2012/3/19 16:17
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PA Patrician (Tim Wile)
[size=x-small][color=000099][font=Georgia][url=https://packardinfo.c |
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