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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#11
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Tim Cole
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I don't know where anybody got the idea that I said storing a car in a heated garage caused it to seize. What I said was that even a car stored in a heated garage can seize.

As I mentioned I can list a plethora of cars that were damaged mechanically during storage. Worn motors may do better because they are loose to begin with.

The assertion that leaving the springs loaded causes no harm is pure baloney. For one it causes flat spots on tires and is a major cause of wheel bearing damage. And those Packards suffer from spring sag so anyone who claims otherwise needs to consult a tape measurer.

Posted on: 2016/12/10 19:42
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#12
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fredkanter
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My point was, by example, that in my experience and from your example of the Lamb '34 it seems to make no difference whether a car is stored in a heated or unheated area as to whether the motor will seize. What seems to matter is the condition of the engine BEFORE storage, one with a leaky headgasket is likely to seize.

Some of the cars we have reawakened have had "stuck" engines, that is they won't turn over by hand after we introduce some oil into the combustion chamber and let sit.
We then using a long lever bar try to turn it by the vibration damper bolt and if that does not work apply leverage to the flywheel gear. In only one case in 40+ years have we had to disassemble the engine when we found Head gskt leakage into a cylinder.

I invite you to our car collection where, among others, you can observe and measure our 25,000 mile 52 Patrician which has never been on jack stands. It sits high and proud and has covered all of its 25,000 miles on the original tires. None of our cars are on stands, none have sagged springs.

Bentley Continental owned 38 years, has been on its tires 100%, sits high, tires fine. 55 Patrician and 55 Carib, same.

We've owned cars which we bought with sagged springs, new springs installed and never sagged since

Am I to believe what you say or what I see and experience these last 50 years??

Posted on: 2016/12/10 21:29
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#13
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Ross
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My theory, based on observing hundreds of customer cars and my own little fleet, is that cars operated with weak shocks or over very rough roads sag. These cars are much more likely to have the springs compressed to their upper limit of travel and further, when the shocks are weak the number of oscillations into highly stressed compression is greatly increased. Then you really get the effects of metal fatigue.

I am a bit anal about keeping good shocks on my cars and have not experienced spring sag on any of them, some over 20 to 40 year periods, always on their wheels.

Posted on: 2016/12/11 6:56
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#14
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fredkanter
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Two more cars reawakend this week at Kanter Auto Restoration.
#1 '37 120 4 door convertible. Engine rblt in the 80's, has under 500 miles since. Un heated storage. Last run 5 yrs ago, no special storage preparations done. did not start, points needed filing.
#2 '54 Clipper w/327, still owned by orig owner, sons are getting to prepared to take 90+ year old Dad riding. Always garaged, orig black paint near perfect as is interior, door weatherstrips as new. Unknown storage conditions. As above, just needed points filed.

Both purr like kittens, of course they're Packards

Posted on: 2016/12/18 14:31
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#15
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Tim Cole
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I think Ross Miller's point about shock absorbers is well taken. Good shocks reduce wear throughout the suspension. However, it does depend heavily on metallurgy. For example, I had a Dodge that I drove for years with worn out non-existent shocks and nothing broke. The 51 and later Packards don't seem to sag very much in the front, but the earlier cars are a disaster. People knock the safety-flex front end, but once the springs sag they beat the daylights out of the kingpins and frame.

Automobile manufacturers inflate tires on inventory to the maximum sidewall pressure for storage. Informed mobile home owners know to move the vehicle after returning from a long trip to avoid damaging the wheel bearings.

I certainly would rather have someone follow precautions and then tell me it makes no difference then tell them to store the car as they would junk and then call me up to tell me that my advice ruined their car.

I was suddenly called overseas for a few years and stored my modern car. It hated it. I oiled the cylinders so the motor didn't smoke but the tires had flat spots and the wheel bearings were noisy. The master cylinder was bypassing as well. If I had more time I would have done a better job, but when I got back I could buy four new ones if I wanted.

Travelling is my biggest weakness. When I get a call about some far away situation that involves boats and planes and dealing with crazy bastards I can't resist. If I could just get one more big adventure in before I croak that would be great.

Posted on: 2016/12/18 20:22
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#16
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fredkanter
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Never had any problems with wheel bearings after sitting motionless and under full load for 10,20, 30, 40 years. Tires do leak and I try to keep them pumped up, sitting flat is tough on tires.

Brakes are a different story, glycol based brake fluid is hygroscopic and it absorbs water from the humidity in the air causing rust in the master and wheel cylinders which results in frozen and or leaking cylinders.

DOT 5 silicone based fluid after flushing out all glycol DOT 3 will nearly eliminate the problem.

I've never had a car damaged or ruined from long term unheated storage with no storage protections taken. Even some clocks work after 40 years, of course you have to set them ahead four decades.

I do not live in an excessively damp area, all vehicles stored on wood floors.

Posted on: 2016/12/18 21:39
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#17
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BDC
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Quote:

fredkanter wrote:
Even some clocks work after 40 years, of course you have to set them ahead four decades.



Posted on: 2016/12/18 23:06
I can explain it to you but I can't understand it for you

Bad company corrupts good character!

Farming: the art of losing money while working 100 hours a week to feed people who think you are trying to kill them
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#18
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Fish'n Jim
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In what I call the "age of speculation" due to all the social media, this would be referred to as "anecdotal evidence" in the classification of things.
We all have our biases and ideas, doesn't make them right or wrong. We use our senses; hearing, vision, etc. to make most of those judgements. Sometimes the senses are fooled. Facts are time and condition dependent. As we learn more, what used to be "correct" may no longer. That's why mathematics is advanced through "proof" - logical deduction and rules. Otherwise, there would be no reason to have to convince people.
I'm sure vehicles have no such biases. They just react to mechanical actions and conditions. Some would say if it works, don't fix it. But we can't see all the issues of a vehicle that's been out of circulation and no record of maintenance. Hence the difference of experiences noted. And the level of condition we want to achieve.
Wear takes time to show up, so if there is something wrong it may nto show for some time and give a false impressions. Just be aware of these, don't over think it, and things usually work out, but without checking thoroughly there will be surprises.

Posted on: 2016/12/19 9:48
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#19
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fredkanter
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Facts seem to have become time/condition/audience dependent of late. An experience with one or two vehicles may be anecdotal but experiences with hundreds of cars over long periods observed by mechanics and engineers with good memories are more towards a scientific study than anecdotal.

If after 30 years storage and an easy resuscitation something goes wrong with the car after 3,000 miles nobody knows if the cause was the storage conditions, normal wear or just age. Example: wheel seals, thermostat, fuel pump etc.

Our 25,000 mile 52 Patrician has covered 7,000 miles since 1973 mostly on long trips to meets. It sits on its tires and has no special prep for storage except moth balls. It starts, stops, runs, steers just fine whenever we use it, all on its original tires. That's anecdotal, multiply by 200 cars and it's not.

Posted on: 2016/12/19 19:13
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Re: Long term storage-Myths??
#20
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Tim Cole
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Alright, then why not park this stuff outside under a tarpaulin?

I think I know what this is about. Somebody has a barn full of ratty cars they want to unload and claim they are good cars despite the mice living in the upholstery and exhaust systems. We see this stuff happening all the time.

I was looking at a Caddy 16 and it was actually pretty good, but I live in Michigan which is a pile of garbage and I won't spend any money here. I'll send my money out of state. I expect that Cadillac will be available in the future for less money and hopefully I will no longer be living in Michigan.

Posted on: 2016/12/19 20:17
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