Hello and welcome to Packard Motor Car Information! If you're new here, please register for a free account.  
Login
Username:

Password:

Remember me



Lost Password?

Register now!
FAQ's
Main Menu
Recent Forum Topics
Who is Online
62 user(s) are online (40 user(s) are browsing Forums)

Members: 0
Guests: 62

more...
Helping out...
PackardInfo is a free resource for Packard Owners that is completely supported by user donations. If you can help out, that would be great!

Donate via PayPal
Video Content
Visit PackardInfo.com YouTube Playlist

Donate via PayPal



« 1 (2) 3 4 »

Re: Body Mounts
#11
Forum Ambassador
Forum Ambassador

HH56
See User information
Some of the cushions do have a shoulder as seen in Steele's product shown on the top cushion in post #6 above. These cushions work exactly as you describe in being mounted sometimes with the shoulder up or sometimes down so shoulder will fit in a larger hole in the body metal or frame outrigger to keep it positioned. In most locations there is also a steel tubular spacer used along with the cushions so the body bolt cannot be tightened too much and compress the rubber excessively.

As to cushions that appear to be missing, there should be something used at all frame to body positions on regular sedan or hardtop models to keep any metal to metal contact from happening. On convertibles where maximum body and frame rigidity and stiffness is required the rubber is often replaced with solid metal. If there is any significant gap between the body and frame then you most likely have something deteriorated and missing. Packard body construction and fit was good in those years so doubtful any body welds or mfg was so out of tolerance that no rubber cushion could fit between body and frame -- although if it was close it might be custom fit and not be a stock thickness piece..

Posted on: 3/10 15:31
Howard
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#12
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Thanks again Howard!

Here's what I pulled out of the driver's side from front to back. (left to right in the picture)

Inner #3 & #4 have an empty space between floor pan brace and frame, I'm sure they are supposed to have a thick cushion like inner #2.

Now to gather up some parts!

For the most part it appears that the cushions kept everything sealed, so not much for rust where the cushions go. I can't really get in there to sandblast those surfaces, but I would like to clean them up and paint them before putting the body mounts back in. Open to suggestions!

Attach file:



jpg  20240310_164748.jpg (3,248.54 KB)
226104_65ee4af11be44.jpg 4032X3024 px

Posted on: 3/10 19:06
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#13
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Little by little...
Click to see original Image in a new window


Click to see original Image in a new window


Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 3/12 10:20
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#14
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Mounts on the driver side mounts are pretty much done, now onto the passenger side. I'm cleaning up the mounts, which are pretty clean from being sealed by the rubber, and painting them with Por 15. Ask me in 50 years how well it works! LOL

PRO TIP-Another Packard enthusiast told me about this. When shaping/drilling rubber mounts freeze them first. Works great!!!

I'm thinking that replacing all my mounts is probably going to change my door/body alignment as some were smashed flat, some were missing and some were hard as rock. Once I'm all done I'll see how things look and if need I'll use the procedure in the service manual for adjusting the body........another adventure!

Does replacing the body mounts make this a frame-off restoration?

Attach file:



jpg  Mount.jpg (8.78 KB)
226104_65f1b617f2891.jpg 160X213 px

Posted on: 3/13 9:21
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#15
Home away from home
Home away from home

Packard Don
See User information
Maybe you can post a list when completed of which new pieces you used and where they go! Either that or, as you said, put together some kits. I for one could use one or two.

Posted on: 3/13 11:50
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#16
Home away from home
Home away from home

Fish'n Jim
See User information
Did you look in the shop manual? I've haven't in some time, so don't quote me. I'm expecting some info maybe there and hidden in some sections, or if P published body manuals? P is kinda in the before period of a lot of automotive science and published info. And the co. records didn't survive all that well and what did got dispersed through the merger. You can maybe get some from the drawings through PAC or Studebaker museum. It was more a competitive trade secret world that everyone spied on/reverse engineered or got tech from vendors. Someone was supplying those rubber parts to P and would be a reference.

Need to respect the torque values also, to get proper body fitment. Torquing require clean and good threads. Compression is the reason. Different rubbers compress at different rates, aka durometer, to get the correct gap. So the rubber has to be correct type, formula too. But I'm bothering with technical details... Just as long as it doesn't shake, rattle, but rolls should be fine.
Making your own rubber parts is above and beyond, frozen or not!
fyi; If the body twists, then no amount of adjustment will work. There's usually measurements that are indictive, for collision work, etc. Not sure what P did for that?
I'm trying to forget my body mount "ordeal" on my truck. This is elegant.
Generally, the "frame off", means the two pieces were completely separated and refurbished then mated, not piece meal. It's kinda misnomer because the body comes off, not the frame? Should be a complete body off and frame restoration. But I'm messing with you now.

Posted on: 3/14 12:06
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#17
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Quote:

Fish'n Jim wrote:
Did you look in the shop manual? I've haven't in some time, so don't quote me. I'm expecting some info maybe there and hidden in some sections, or if P published body manuals? P is kinda in the before period of a lot of automotive science and published info. And the co. records didn't survive all that well and what did got dispersed through the merger. You can maybe get some from the drawings through PAC or Studebaker museum. It was more a competitive trade secret world that everyone spied on/reverse engineered or got tech from vendors. Someone was supplying those rubber parts to P and would be a reference.

Need to respect the torque values also, to get proper body fitment. Torquing require clean and good threads. Compression is the reason. Different rubbers compress at different rates, aka durometer, to get the correct gap. So the rubber has to be correct type, formula too. But I'm bothering with technical details... Just as long as it doesn't shake, rattle, but rolls should be fine.
Making your own rubber parts is above and beyond, frozen or not!
fyi; If the body twists, then no amount of adjustment will work. There's usually measurements that are indictive, for collision work, etc. Not sure what P did for that?
I'm trying to forget my body mount "ordeal" on my truck. This is elegant.
Generally, the "frame off", means the two pieces were completely separated and refurbished then mated, not piece meal. It's kinda misnomer because the body comes off, not the frame? Should be a complete body off and frame restoration. But I'm messing with you now.


The shop manual does talk about fitment and how to check body alignment, which will be a project for after I'm done my floor pan repairs and have all my new mounts in place. A list of what parts go in what place I have not been able to find and haven't been able to come up with a list using the parts book either, so I just pulled out one side to figure out what all I needed, much of of the hardware I'm able to reuse.

Torque is 20-23 foot lbs for the cushions. Manual doesn't say, but I would suspect that this would be something to check after a couple of weeks once things have settled.

I suspect finding out the density of the original cushions is probably not likely. I figure the cushions that I have will either compress a bit more if they are softer, or a bit less if they are harder when torqued correctly. (I have heard that Steele Rubber mounts are too "soft".)

The manual also says it's a good way to check for frame or body damage, that is, if the mount holes are not lining up that is a good indication that something has been bent, possibly due to a collision.

Posted on: 3/14 13:19
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#18
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Scraping off the seam sealer of my floor pan to make sure there is nothing hiding that needs some attention. "If you go looking for trouble..." Whoops, I missed this spot! This is outrigger #5 just in front of the rear wheel well on the passenger side.

Click to see original Image in a new window


These mounts are a bit different than the rest in that they don't have a heavy washer on top that presses against the floor pan itself like in this picture. (This is outrigger #4 at the door post.)

Click to see original Image in a new window

Instead, #5 on both sides is bolted down by the brace, but not the pan. Note in the picture below the space around the washer, the floor pan does not go under the washer. (No washer originally, I added that.) This is obviously intentional, but can someone tell me why? Is this to help minimize the transfer of noise or vibration? Maybe it allows additinoal flexibility at this spot?? Has me curious... 🤔

Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 3/18 9:55
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#19
Home away from home
Home away from home

53 Cavalier
See User information
Finish floor pan repairs, then body mounts, then clean and paint floor pan, then......well the list is long, and getting longer! 😬

Click to see original Image in a new window


Click to see original Image in a new window


Click to see original Image in a new window

Posted on: 3/24 23:57
 Top  Print   
 


Re: Body Mounts
#20
Home away from home
Home away from home

Ross
See User information
I see your car has replacement rocker panels. Whilst welding, I suggest you weld them on. That will add a lot of rigidity to the car.

Oh, and that should be solid metal under those rear mounts. A large fender washer will suffice.

Posted on: 3/25 5:27
 Top  Print   
 




« 1 (2) 3 4 »




Search
Recent Photos
Photo of the Day
Recent Registry
Website Comments or Questions?? Click Here Copyright 2006-2024, PackardInfo.com All Rights Reserved