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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#11
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Jim
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Folks far more knowledgeable than I on the 282 and 288 have already chimed in. I just had to tell you I think that is one sharp car! Thanks for posting an image. Welcome to Packard Info.

Posted on: 2010/10/12 0:57
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#12
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JWL
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Thanks Mal and Eric. This information may be useful to others too. So, the 3 1/2" bore engines (288,327, 356, and 359) are basically the same length, with some differences, and longer than the 3 1/4" bore 282 engines. Good to know about later transmissions fitting earlier engines. Thanks Denny.

(o{I}o)

Posted on: 2010/10/12 8:25
We move toward
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What occupies our mind... (W. Scherer)
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#13
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Dennis Taylor
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Thanks for all this info, guys. I will carefully inspect my engine for all these features, and hopefully can determine what it is.
Update: The date on the block casting, in front of the starter, is "12 7 48", so this appears to be a 1948 casting, but how then does it have the wierd engine number "N235361. CE CAL." ??

I will post my findings tonight after I look for all the things you guys pointed out.

The Packard parts guys at Kanter are trying to help me find the correct oil pan for this engine, and so far the dimensions don't make sense. I am confident with your help, we will solve this!!
Dennis

Posted on: 2010/10/12 20:14
Dennis Taylor
San Jose, CA
1939 1292 touring sedan
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#14
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HH56
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It is starting to sound more like a service replacement engine was installed. Am not really familiar with pre war differences between 38-9 but here is an article from 1946 describing changes needed to install a current service engine in some pre 39 cars. If any of the items or needed changes were made to yours it might give you a clue.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SC-VOL20NO6.pdf

Posted on: 2010/10/12 20:25
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#15
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BDeB
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Are you sure that the first letter of the engine number is an "N" and not an "H"

A number in the H2xxxxx series would place it in the 1949 model year which then matches the casting date.

Posted on: 2010/10/12 21:23
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#16
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Eric Boyle
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Quote:
Are you sure that the first letter of the engine number is an "N" and not an "H"


That's the most logical suggestion I've heard to date.

Posted on: 2010/10/12 21:48
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#17
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HH56
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Since it is a 22nd series engine, here is a bulletin on the CE suffix.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/STB/48T-25.pdf and may help you determine which oil pan you need. That and other suffix details are in SC Vol 22#12. Vol23 #6 gives dimensions of various dipsticks used and might also help.

If it does turn out to be an H, that would solve almost all being right in sequence but does not explain the CAL also stamped in. If it is a replacement engine, and is an N then could stand for "new", and the CAL could be for California DMV purposes noting the change if it were done here. Don't know how service engines were numbered though--whether just a number in the original sequence without a letter -- which doesn't seem likely or with...

Posted on: 2010/10/12 22:14
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#18
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Eric Boyle
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If it's a 288 or a 327, the pans are the same, to an extent...

Midway through the '48 model year they went to a larger oil pan, and this is designated by a suffix to the engine number. As noted in the 1946-1950 Service manual, if the engine has a "CD", "CE", "D", or "E" suffix the capacity is 7qt instead of the original 6qt. "CAL" is a new one on me, and I'm wondering if it isn't one of the first two suffixes listed.

Posted on: 2010/10/13 10:40
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#19
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Dennis Taylor
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OK, I have read all your latest posts, and have checked them out.
First, the letter is most certainly an "N", not an "H". This also occured to me, so I have triple-checked, and the N is quite clear.
The Sept 48 bulletin describing the "CE" suffix makes good sense, and I believe is right on for my engine: it must have the newer cam and higher capacity oil pan.
The letters "CAL." are stamped BELOW the engine number itself, and I agree with the idea it has to do with a service engine.
I will post some photos of the engine, I apologize in advance for the messyness of it!!
Per Turbopackman's comments, it is not a 282, since it is too long, and the road breather pipe is attached to the rear valve cover plate.
It is not a 356, since the distributor is between the 2nd and 3rd freeze plugs.
Note that on the head, the casting number ends with a "288" in larger letters (see photo), could this signify 288 cid.??
I will take some photos of the oil pan itself and post, and send them to Kanter.
Thanks, and please keep any responses coming!
Dennis

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Posted on: 2010/10/13 16:06
Dennis Taylor
San Jose, CA
1939 1292 touring sedan
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Re: New Member: My '39 120 has strange engine number. Help??
#20
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Eric Boyle
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I can see both the "CE" on the end of the number, as well as the "CAL" under the number, but I sure as heck can't see the first letter, the "N" or "H" in question. You definitely have a 288 with the larger oil pan. I would imagine that an oil pan for a 1949-1950 would work just fine. The 288 on the head signifies that the head itself is from a 288, and is most likely original.

Posted on: 2010/10/13 16:24
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