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Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#106

Forum Ambassador

Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
Nice progress - keep it up. It appears you may well have an engine in very good condition. Did you happen to take compression readings before you pulled the head?

Spark plug appearance is completely typical.

Though the Steele rubber front engine mount isolators seem to last pretty well (the ones on my old 48 Custom have been in service for a couple of decades), if it was my choice and the car was a personal keeper, I'd probably have gone with the urethane as well. Tell me more about where you sourced them?

Dave, I was just reading back a bit and realized I never replied to these questions. I apologize! No, I did not do a compression check. I did a plug drop check and found nice even idle drop from cylinder to cylinder, with just the slightest difference in cylinder 6. The car ran so well, did not smoke a bit (after steps taken described earlier in this thread), and made almost no blow by I had little need to do one. Oddly, I never even had the occasion to pull a spark plug till the other evening.

On the front engine mount question, a fellow in Southern California casts them. I can PM you his contact info if you like. I am very pleased with the fit and finish.

Posted on: 2011/5/14 23:15

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#107

Forum Ambassador

Quote:

Joe Santana wrote:

"...Here are the instructions they sent.
"Place the gauge in the lifter body and while holding the valve down on its seat, check the clearance between the valve stem and the gauge using a feeler gauge. The clearance should be more than .030 inch and less than .070 inch. Repeat for each valve. Be sure to see that each piston is at the top of its compression stroke when checking the corresponding valves for clearance.

When installing the hydraulic lift into the tappet, it is advisable to have removed all of the oil from inside the hydraulic unit. Otherwise, the valve may be held open until the excess oil escapes from the lifter. With good tight lifters this could take some time. The lifters will pump back up over a period of time. This can take as much as 20 to 30 minutes to become totally quiet depending on oil pressure."

I realize you said most of that. I think I read in one of the service manuals that it can take an hour for the lifters to pump up..."

Joe, all excellent information! You were well served to take all these precautions because I know of folks that obtained the services of "professionals" who did not take these precautions and delivered a Klackard as the finished product.

Myself and others are well served by these reminders!

Posted on: 2011/5/14 23:28

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#108

Forum Ambassador

Quote:

Owen_Dyneto wrote:
...Some one earlier, perhaps in this thread, made a comment about Packard's designing these lifters or something like that - Packard didn't design them, they were designed, patented and manufactured by Wilcox-Rich and are of the same design though slightly different than the Wilcox-Rich units used in the flathead Cadillac V8 (345 ci). Pierce Arrow had hydraulic lifters in the in-line 8s well before most anyone else - don't know who made these units but if anyone knows, I'd like to hear.

Dave if you meant my post stating "I am also surprised to find that Packard engineers wanted the lifter plunger sunk that deep into the lifter body, but that is what they wanted and they built a fine silent running engine that provided great long-term service." I really wasn't directly commenting on who designed the part as much as the directive on plunger depth in the lifter body. With that said, I am delighted to learn a little about these early lifters and never new Pierce Arrow had hydraulic lifters in the in-line 8s well before most anyone else. I was always under the false impression that Packard was one of the earliest.

These little tidbits folks share here are a big part of making the threads so interesting! Thanks...

Posted on: 2011/5/14 23:35

fred kanter

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#109

Home away from home

Nearly identical Wilcox-Rich lifters were used in Lincoln V12 38-48, V8 49-51, Cadillac V8 38-48, Packard 356 40-50, some 288,327 and all 359 48-54. We make them all.

The precision fit that cannot be mixed is the hydraulic tappet body to the hydraulic tappet piston, they are fitted to the tenths of thousands. The cam follower to hydraulic tappet is not a precision fit, they can be mixed between valves. The cam followers shoiuld be placed back to the position they came from, they have a wear pattern which mates to that of the individual cam lobe that should not be disturbed.

Posted on: 2011/5/15 3:02

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#110

Forum Ambassador

Two full days of stripping and prepping sundry parts. Spent Saturday stripping the starter assembly. For the life of me, I can't imagine why the rebuild (or who ever) would have painted it yellow, followed by the Detroit Diesel green, with a final topcoat of Packard engine enamel to hide the prior offenses. Why not just paint it black? Oh well...

Today was stripping and prepping road draft tube, oil fill, oil filter canister, and all the copper lines that connect distributor to carb, oil filter, manifold drain, and spark plug wire holder. It never ceases to amaze me how long it takes to do this kind of work. While I am not restoring the car at this time, I do feel any work done should be performed in the spirit of putting back to as delivered standards. Though much of this work really will not make a big difference in the way the car performs, it is amounts to pride in workmanship.

Prepping these sundry parts and pieces reminds me of just how much Mal, Kev, West, and Joe have all gone through. While this kind of work is not new to me, I have enjoyed following their project threads and inspired by each of their respective detail, workmanship, and final outcome.

On to prepping the cylinder head, manifold assembly, and sourcing odds and ends. Speaking of odds and ends, I bought a lower radiator connection pipe made of stainless steel today. That should last forever!

Also, by chance... would anyone reading this thread have a spare proper clamp for the 1.5 inch road draft tube to valve cover attachment? Mine seems to have changed to a gates style hose clamp at some point.

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Posted on: 2011/5/15 23:39

West Peterson

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#111

Home away from home

Quote:

39super8 wrote:
While I am not restoring the car at this time, I do feel any work done should be performed in the spirit of putting back to as delivered standards. Though much of this work really will not make a big difference in the way the car performs, it is amounts to pride in workmanship.

Prepping these sundry parts and pieces reminds me of just how much Mal, Kev, West, and Joe have all gone through. While this kind of work is not new to me, I have enjoyed following their project threads and inspired by each of their respective detail, workmanship, and final outcome.

Thanks! I feel the same way, and did the same thing with my little 356 Porsche (ironically, I went from a 356 Porsch to a 356 Packard). If I was going to do any particular task, I would certainly take the time to do it correctly.

Posted on: 2011/5/16 8:47

West Peterson
1930 Packard Speedster Eight Runabout (boattail)
1940 Packard 1808 w/Factory Air
1947 Chrysler Town and Country sedan
1970 Camaro RS

https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=4307&forum=10

http://aaca.org/

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#112

Forum Ambassador

Not a great deal of progress tonight. Picked up brass nuts, brass freeze plugs, and a replacement oil filter element.

The oil filter on the left is a Wix 51080 factory spec. small filter and on the right is an alternative Wix 51010 Large replacement filter that comes with the wrong gasket. The image doesn't really show how much bigger the 51010 is. Almost twice as big! Since I am plumbed as delivered with all oil supply piped through the filter to supply the lifters I am going to use the bigger filter (oddly, oils enters the center of the filter) for maximum flow and minimum chance of plugging. Will also change more often. I really like the idea of filtered oil going to the lifters and this car seems to have functioned as is for 71 years.

Other than that, I inspected the mushroom of the tappet through the oil drain back hole I extracted the ballooned lifter out of to ensure the mushroom did not break off (I understand this happens at times) and found it to be just fine. Very glad! Went ahead and re-inspected, cleaned again, and lubricated the tappet in preparation for lifter and valve installation.

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Posted on: 2011/5/17 0:03

Guscha

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#113

Home away from home

...Some one earlier, perhaps in this thread, made a comment about Packard's designing these lifters or something like that - Packard didn't design them, they were designed, patented and manufactured by Wilcox-Rich and are of the same design though slightly different than the Wilcox-Rich units used in the flathead Cadillac V8 (345 ci). Pierce Arrow had hydraulic lifters in the in-line 8s well before most anyone else - don't know who made these units but if anyone knows, I'd like to hear. [Owen Dyneto]

BTW According to the German wikipedia and 800 other internet based sources no one less than Paul Daimler, eldest son of Gottlieb Daimler is reputed to be the inventor of the hydro lifters. But soon I found out that more than 600 of the mentioned sources use the same wording (even translated to several other languages). Let it be a warning! Wikipedia is a starting point of a research but if one uses it as single source it will soon lead to an embarrassment. Paul Daimler didn't invent the hydro lifters.

Quote:

Nearly identical Wilcox-Rich lifters were used in Lincoln V12 38-48, V8 49-51, Cadillac V8 38-48, Packard 356 40-50, some 288,327 and all 359 48-54. We make them all... [Fred Kanter]

Horch used hydraulic lifters for the valve drive design of eight and twelve-cylinder engines from 1931, at about the same time as Pierce-Arrow.

[picture source: Audi.de]

Posted on: 2011/5/17 2:49

The story of ZIS-110, ZIS-115, ZIL-111 & Chaika GAZ-13 on www.guscha.de

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#114

Forum Ambassador

A little progress tonight. Cleaned and prepped the cylinder head.

Installed the new lifter, valve, and valve spring. I am sure glad Fred and Dan have these lifters reproduced! The new one looks very nice, and had excellent plunger to lifter body fitment.

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Posted on: 2011/5/18 1:18

Jim

Re: 1940 Super 8 160 Model 1803 Project

#115

Forum Ambassador

A side note; a while back, Kev posted about a filter added to his engine at some point that has the inlet on the bottom (middle of filter element) and outlet on the side. Well, mine does also. Ours are both marked Packard on the lid. This odd duck filters from the middle out, with a built in filter element bypass feature. The center tube has a bypass spring and ball arrangement and a cross drilled hole in the filter top nut. If the filter becomes plugged, the oil pops the bypass valve squirting up through the nut, out the side, and over the top of the filter element.

A very unconventional yet intentional way to filter, and bypass design feature. Effectively, this allowed the filter to supply oil full filtered to the valve train, without the need to plumb in external bypass mode with the restricted supply going to the filter. What does this all mean? Dunno, other than Kev's filter was not miss-stamped for inlet and outlet.

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