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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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humanpotatohybrid
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Yup just the normal push on style.

I don't remember the size though. Check with a caliper and buy accordingly.

Posted on: 2023/10/13 11:55
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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So this past week I ripped off the band aid and took this thing to work. It handed the roads and traffic well. Had it all out and about. Put about 270 miles on it so far and its running well. Got most of the interior together finally and looks really nice! didnt get a picture of the interior yet.

So one thing I did notice while driving. When doing hard pulls in 2 or third gear around 40-60 mph the car starts to nudge a little bit. if you keep your foot in it, it starts to buck. I dont hear a misfire or anything. I have not done this when the over drive was engaged (at least I dont think so), but did it with the dash knob pushed in and pulled out. Does this sound like an ignition problem? or a clutch or fuel problem? I know the over drive kicks off the ignition for it to go into overdrive, but I dont believe the electronics of the overdrive are turned off when shut off knob is pulled out. so maybe it is the overdrive that is causing this?

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Posted on: 2023/10/27 16:04
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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humanpotatohybrid
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Remind us what transmission you have again? The R700 conversion?

Do you have the mechanical pump? If you slowly go from steady power to intermittent bursts, that sounds like it could match to how the mechanical pump delivers fuel. In that case, is your fuel filter clean? The ceramic filters don't really look dirty, they just need cleaned periodically. The fuel pump was designed to always try to deliver much more fuel than needed to prevent this situation.

What's your fuel level like when this happens? Full, or less than 1/2 a tank? Have you checked the fuel tank condition? (I don't remember if you did) Sometimes the internal fuel line in the tank gets a pinhole at the ½ or ¼ full point causing a variety of expected issues only at low fuel levels.

Posted on: 2023/10/27 17:07
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Deluxe | Registry | Project Blog
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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64avanti
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Points to a fuel prob.
The old timers will tell you- Most ignition problems are carb related!

Super car, BTW.

Posted on: 2023/10/27 17:11
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Quote:

humanpotatohybrid wrote:
Remind us what transmission you have again? The R700 conversion?

Do you have the mechanical pump? If you slowly go from steady power to intermittent bursts, that sounds like it could match to how the mechanical pump delivers fuel. In that case, is your fuel filter clean? The ceramic filters don't really look dirty, they just need cleaned periodically. The fuel pump was designed to always try to deliver much more fuel than needed to prevent this situation.

What's your fuel level like when this happens? Full, or less than 1/2 a tank? Have you checked the fuel tank condition? (I don't remember if you did) Sometimes the internal fuel line in the tank gets a pinhole at the ½ or ¼ full point causing a variety of expected issues only at low fuel levels.


I believe it is the T-89 3 speed with the R11 over drive? Its the packard 3 speed.

I believe the filter is clean... if not, how do I clean it? The fuel pump is a mechanical one. It was originally for a 55-57 T-bird (as suggested by Ross). The fuel system is above "half" as indicated by the fuel gauge. The fuel tank is new. the metal and rubber hoses on the system are all new.

so you think it is fuel related? I was kind of thinking the ignition was cutting out due to the overdrive wanting to go in. But Ill see if heat from the exhaust is causing problems, and look for leaks.

Posted on: 2023/10/30 14:15
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Quote:

64avanti wrote:
Points to a fuel prob.
The old timers will tell you- Most ignition problems are carb related!

Super car, BTW.


Thanks! I guess Ill check fuel stuff, but the carb was rebuild by me. I guess I could have done something wrong.

Posted on: 2023/10/30 14:16
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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humanpotatohybrid
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You can see if the fuel filter is the problem by simply removing the ceramic filter temporarily.

If not, maybe some problem with the power circuits in the carb?

Posted on: 2023/10/30 14:25
1955 400 | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Deluxe | Registry | Project Blog
1955 Clipper Super Panama | Registry
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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HH56
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I need to do research on the exact OD solenoid action for 55-6 units but with no electric lockout switch, in theory solenoid will get power any time the car is going over cut in speed. With the lockout knob pulled out though, there should be an internal mechanical block to keep the plunger from being extended so the car cannot go into OD. Without the plunger being extended there is a set of contacts inside the solenoid that will not be closed so there should not be any ground available so impossible for ground to reach the ign cut out circuit and cause issues.

If the knob is pushed in, the car will go into OD and the solenoid internal ground contacts will close when plunger nears the maximum extension. Ground will get as far as the kickdown switch but go no farther so again no ign cut out issue. If you floor the gas, kickdown switch will pass the ground and make the engine miss a few revs but at the same time the solenoid will also drop out immediately and open its contact to cut off ground as the plunger retracts so the engine will not die. That entire process only takes a few milliseconds. In one of the OD writeups I believe it said the engine cut out process is supposed to be over within 1-2 engine revolutions at 60mph and within a "few" spark pulses at a lower rpm.

On the fuel filter, as was mentioned earlier the ceramic filters can look clean and pass air freely if you blow thru them. In practical fact, if varnish has deposited in the pores it can restrict fuel flow. Depending on how much restriction has occurred will sort of determine at what speed the engine starts getting starved for fuel.

You can try soaking the elements in acetone or carb cleaner to see if that will dissolve the varnish but in some cases it won't and the elements will need to be changed. If you cannot find the small ceramic elements the filter will need to be converted to a paper element.

Posted on: 2023/10/30 14:47
Howard
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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CarFreak
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Quote:

HH56 wrote:
I need to do research on the exact OD solenoid action for 55-6 units but with no electric lockout switch, in theory solenoid will get power any time the car is going over cut in speed. With the lockout knob pulled out though, there should be an internal mechanical block to keep the plunger from being extended so the car cannot go into OD. Without the plunger being extended there is a set of contacts inside the solenoid that will not be closed so there should not be any ground available so impossible for ground to reach the ign cut out circuit and cause issues.

If the knob is pushed in, the car will go into OD and the solenoid internal ground contacts will close when plunger nears the maximum extension. Ground will get as far as the kickdown switch but go no farther so again no ign cut out issue. If you floor the gas, kickdown switch will pass the ground and make the engine miss a few revs but at the same time the solenoid will also drop out immediately and open its contact to cut off ground as the plunger retracts so the engine will not die. That entire process only takes a few milliseconds. In one of the OD writeups I believe it said the engine cut out process is supposed to be over within 1-2 engine revolutions at 60mph and within a "few" spark pulses at a lower rpm.

On the fuel filter, as was mentioned earlier the ceramic filters can look clean and pass air freely if you blow thru them. In practical fact, if varnish has deposited in the pores it can restrict fuel flow. Depending on how much restriction has occurred will sort of determine at what speed the engine starts getting starved for fuel.

You can try soaking the elements in acetone or carb cleaner to see if that will dissolve the varnish but in some cases it won't and the elements will need to be changed. If you cannot find the small ceramic elements the filter will need to be converted to a paper element.


removing the ceramic filter and doing a pull doesnt seem all the difficult to do. I will try and clean it and see what happens. It appears amazon and Jegs sell the ceramic filter. I believe I got a new gasket, I cant remember if that filter was replaced...

and thank you for the write up on the overdrive. Could I run into an issue if the cable isnt fully putting the mechanical block into place? Would the solenoid fail in such a way that the contacts would go to ground regardless of the mechanical shut off block? An easy way to test would be to remove the fuse for the relay and do a hard throttle pull?

Posted on: 2023/10/30 16:37
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Re: Vacation Car - 56 Patrician
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HH56
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Just be aware there are different size ceramic elements and I don't believe the one commonly sold in most parts stores for Chevys etc will work in the smaller diameter filter unit Packard used in some years. I think the difference may be AC and Carter brand filters. Someone posted recently they saw a vendor for a small element on ebay. I think it was for a Carter filter but won't swear to that.

Posted on: 2023/10/30 16:56
Howard
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