Packard Forum Index » Post-War (1946-54)

Hi guys,

My starter bendix gear (Clipper 327 Deluxe Touring sedan 1954) seems to be creeping towards the ring gear on the flexplate with the engine running. This is not always the case, but if it does it occurs sometimes immediately after starting or when driving along and produces an annoying metallish ringing sound. Stopping the engine and restarting it mostly cures the situation but is of course not a permanent fix.

The bendix seems to be new and the bendix gear is undamaged, the starting motor -a Delco Remy unit 1108008- is otherwise in good shape as is the ring gear on the flexplate.

Anyone who recognizes this issue and has a cure? I have read something about an anti-drift pin in the bendix which prevents the gear from moving once in the resting position.
I also read that this contraption could be faulty or (in remanufactured bendix units) even absent.

Can anyone please throw his light on this problem? Any information is welcome.
Help, help.

Here is the article detailing the anti-kickout Bendix. You might be able to pull your starter and see if you have this type or a regular type. They both appear to have the anti drift pin so perhaps yours is damaged or the spring is broken and is the reason for the problem.

https://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/SC/SC-VOL26NO9.pdf

Thanks Howard.
This is very useful info and it proves my point. My car is from 1954 and the information you point at is about the carburator switch operated starter of course. But the type of bendix is the same type as in my car.
So I guess in my case the detent pin preventing the gear to return to its original 'departure' position on a false start wouldn't be there (?), but the anti-drift pin surely should be there, as the situation of the starter gear of my Clipper occasionally creeping up to the rotating flywheel or the flexplate (in my case) and physically touching it is of course the same as in earlier cars.

How is your opinion on what I have read on the internet that in remanufactured bendix units the anti-drift pin is not always present? My bendix unit is a new and therefore almost certainly remanufactured item. And what is your opinion on the theory that the pin could be overslippery due to liberal lubrication of the spiral?

Do you think the issue I describe is common or rare?
And what can be done to fix it? I think the bendix unit can't be taken apart to look inside (maybe I'm wrong)and a new unit is not necessarily adequately equipped with an anti-drift pin???

Thanks Howard for joining me in my quest for a permanent solution!

I don't recall any mentions of that particular problem of it routinely creeping out but the more common complaint is there is a grinding or ringing noise after the engine has made a false start or after someone has been working with or changed the starter. The noise is because the bendix and pinion was not properly locked in the rest position and was partially extended. In that case it is conceivable it could be free to vibrate and move. Not really sure how strong the anti-drift pin and spring actually are after some wear and age might have set in.

Believe the article covers it but to fully retract, the pinion needs to have the brief extreme backward revs provided by engagement with the flywheel when the engine starts. The centrifugal force generated when spinning the pinion releases the pin and the fast backward speed of the assy is faster than the starter is spinning so it spins or winds back on the spiral where it locks. If that doesn't happen such as when the engine doesn't start or the bendix is manually brought out or more likely is spun out when a starter is returned from an overhaul and hasn't been re-positioned properly, the thing can creep forward and touch the flywheel. I suppose if the spring is weak or the spiral is excessively lubed it could be a problem but it seems like the excess lube would be spun off. IMO, lube is not as likely the problem. As to whether the rebuilds remove or change the anti-kickback, I hadn't heard that before.

After introduction I believe the anti-kickback type was used on all models except the senior cars which have the starter where the bendix or pinion is mechanically shifted in by the solenoid.

I haven't seen Jason on site much lately but if he's not snowed under and has time to still answer emails I think he would be the best person to ask about a permanent fix or if in fact the rebuilts do remove the pin. jason@aerrebuild.com

Once again Howard, thanks for your extensive information.

I will try to get in touch with Jason to find out if he can throw more light on the issue.

Well-- some investigation over the last few days pointed out that my remanufactured bendix doesn't seem to have an anti-drift pin but an anti-drift spring. This spring is invisibly positioned in the barrel of the bendix gear, around the helix shaped spline.

Although this spring should do the job of holding bscht the gear when the starter is off, it probably doesn't.

Anyone who experienced the same issue and came up with a solution? Coud it be as simple as a stronger anti-drift spring -and where to get it from- or would I mess up some balance in the operation of the bendix?

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Well well, all of the efforts to get the creeping or drifting problem solved have come to no result at all, aarghh.

A friendly co-Packard owner borrowed me a Delco Remy starter 1108027, which fits the 327 engine but has a gear shifted forward by the solenoid. I will fit it tomorrow to test whether this type of starter will cure the issue. It was fitted in the same year 1954 actually but on the Super versions (5411) of the Clipper. My Clipper is a Deluxe (5401) Imho both cars are technically identical.

Maybe the other approach of shifting the starter gear into the ring gear and therefore locking it more positively when the starter is not functioning will solve the problem.

An interesting question is why the shifter type was used in the Super versions, is it a better starter, more modern?

As I could only borrow the starter and have to return it, does anyone have a tip -if the problem is indeed solved- where to buy one? Has it been used in other makes, models?

You have less than a week to figure this out if you stand any chance of any emergency Packard care package arriving in my luggage to the Euro_Packard meet in Switzerland, if that might be coordinated with any Packard friends you have that might be attending. Have you gotten a response from Jason at AER rebuild?
I think I have a spare 54 Starter, used, have not tested it.

Dave, I'm envious - have a great time at the Euro-Packard meet. Should you run into Peter Issler of Switzerland (34 1102, tan & chocolate) or Andreas Straube from Germany, give them my best wishes. And take A LOT of pictures for us.

We did briefly exchange emails and I'm not sure where we left off. I recommended changing the entire drive (bendix) assembly to start. It's an easy first step. If in fact the drive is drifting forward and hitting the ring gear, there is really only a couple options as far as the starter is concerned. The drive may be defective or the starter armature it self could be drifting forward. The armature sliding forward would be very unlikely especially considering you recently had it worked on. It would have to be missing the front (drive end) thrust washer and I'm thinking the drive end housing would have to be worn fairly deep to allow the armature to move that far.

Is there any wear or chips on the drive teeth? I would think this happening would be sure to do damage to the drive teeth. Also, can you tell how deep the drive gear is engaging in to the ring gear in normal use? Usually you can see a slight marking from where the ring gear and drive gear mesh together, usually 3/8" or so deep. Theres also a slim chance that the wrong drive could have been installed and is slightly longer than the original. They make quite a few different drives that style with that pinion in different lengths.

-Jason