Packard Forum Index » General

I have a 1954 Packard Cavalier I am tinkering with.

It was nicely restored in the mid 90's from what appears to be a fairly straight and well maintained and driven car up until that time.

The restoration was extensive.

I have what I believe is a fuel delivery issue.

The car starts up quickly and runs fine except from time to time I get a feel that it is about to stall. Usually while sitting at a light just after stopping. I can't tell if it goes lean or rich.

An electric fuel pump was added by a previous owner which is located on the frame about the middle driver door pillar area.

The fuel route goes like this; a rubber hose from the tank to the steel line along the drivers side of the frame. The above pump with an inline filter. The steel line goes forward and crosses over to the engine pump side where a flexible rubber fuel hose connects it to the pump. Another piece of steel line from the engine pump to the final filter just before the carb. I don't see any hot spots and the outside temperature has been 45 to 75.

The previous owner said if the stumbling occurs he switches on the pump, which I have done and it smoothes out quickly.

Having tried several things I have been mostly running with the pump always on although I suspect it has possibly caused flooding once or twice.

Disconnecting the fuel line at the carburetor and turning on the pump I get a good stream (I didn't check the pressure) and the screen in the carb is clean.

When I start the car with the pump switch on, the engine starts up quickly but the pump seems to run a good long time like the entire fuel line is empty.

I changed Spark Plugs (J8C), the old ones were slightly sooty like running rich. I leaned out the auto choke slightly and adjusted the idle screws probably ? to ? turn in. The air cleaner had too much oil in it so I lowered it to the line and flushed the element with gasoline.

The Carb looks like new and appears to work properly and the vent pops up when the throttle is closed.

I am running mid-grade 89 gas, The vent on the gas cap is good, I have no fuel leaks.
I don't see any debris in the fuel filters.

Waiting for points and condenser to arrive n the mail.

I am aware of recent discussion regarding modern gasoline.

Any new ideas for me to try?

Jim

Many moons ago I had a similar problem. Mine turned out to be a pinhole in the fuel line allowing air into it. There was no leakage of gasoline. I presurized the line by putting compressed air into the gas filler neck and the pinhole burst allowing gas out of the hole. Mine was right where the fuel line crossed onto the left frame by the front wheel. I am not recommending any specific test to anyone as this could be dangerous and either cause damage or injury. I am just stating what I did to find my particular problem.

The pinhole sounds like a good place to start. Aside from what you've checked, there have been an occasional dirty screen in bottom of pump and several reports of varnish clogged ceramic filters that would pass air but restrict gasoline.

There have been reports of a couple of other intermittent fuel delivery causes: A piece of debris inside tank which periodically rolled or was sucked into a position blocking fuel line inlet opening or a hardened flex line near pump in which the lining had cracked. In that case, occasionally a piece of the lining would flex and be caught in the stream acting like a flapper valve.

I mentioned an almost stalling problem I noticed when stopping sometimes. It seemd like soon after the car had warmed up a little. I was atributing this to fuel delivery.

I'm giving it this thought, I have reduced the idle speed by me adjusting the auto choke so Fast idle comes off sooner and the choke comes open sooner. So as the car is brought to a stop the engine goes to the now slower idle speed and a lower front pump pressure. Rear pump still sees wheels turning and keeps the direct drive clutch engaged longet than it should. I realize in this condition direct drive will keep the drive shaft locked to the crankshaft

This car has the early 54 Ultramatic (non-gear start).

This manafests after being driven the first mile or so before the temp guage gets up to normal.

I haven't checked the Trans oil yet due to lack of lift and width of tummy but it hasn't leaked any in about 1000 miles of driving.

Jim

This is out of the June 54 issue of service counselor. Wonder if it pertains with your slower engine. Probably not, but at least it gives the speed DD is supposed to drop out. Lots of articles mentioning a dirty governor may be causing slow DD dropout. Believe governor is one thing Ross has mentioned checking early on with any DD problems.

Attach file:

---

  (38.59 KB)

I was thinking the throttle position linkage may need a little adjustment as before I adjusted the auto choke I believe the idle position was always on at least one step up.

This problem has never actually stalled the engine and only happens occasionally and I only notice it since I cut back the auto choke.

Here in Phoenix a morning cold start is about 45 degrees.

I appreciate the information.

Jim

I had a fairly similar problem on an old Ford truck and it turned out the fuel tank was not venting properly (mud dobbers in the vent line) replaces the vent and it worked great.

Moving down the road:

I replaced the condenser (Points looked OK, dwell was right on), I turned the Carb idle screw about 1/2 turn faster but after setting the timing back to the spec the idle dropped back to where it was before. (This adjustment was with the choke full open).

After driving a good bit over the weekend I didn't notice any of the stumbling or what I thought was slow dropout of the direct drive clutch.

The electric pump still runs a long time;

The fuel tank cap does have a vent hole and it is open and clear.

I still suspect the fuel line knowing the previous owner had replaced some part of it due to a pinhole.

I ask you guys how difficult it is to fish in a new fuel line from the tank to the pump? Do the parts vendors offer a decent replacement? The original line snakes through the frame on the driver side and crosses around the front to cross to the pump side of the engine. The original line is held in please by little clips. I assume the original line is steel from front to back. My fuel line does now have an electric pump near the mid pillar and I can see rubber hose up to the top of tank. There are three pieces of rubber hose with hose clamps along the route.

There is a short flex line at the pump which looks original style with those flare fittings. The piece at the tank appears to be on with little hose clamps. No fuel appears to leak out anywhere which may indicate it is back toward the tank before the electric pump

As I have played with cars back to the 1930's I don't recall that much trouble with original fuel pumps.

The other biggest issue is the current price of mid grade gasoline which I why I switched back to the Harley this \week :)

Dear Jim:

Here is a quick method to clear dirty idle air bleeds that may be causing an idle problem:

Rev the motor to moderate speed and quickly place your hand over the carburetor. The suction will help clear any dirt clogging up the air bleeds. A little spray Gumout before this proceedure will also help.

I like that pinhole story. Make sure all of the lines and fittings are air tight. Restored cars suffer more from air leaks than original cars.

Also, those rubber lines crossing over the frame is lousy. You can get the Airtex inline fuel pump from Bill Hirsch which can be put on the outside of the frame.

Hope this helps

I believe the Carb is OK at this point although I do believe there has to be an air leak in the fuel line somewhere.

When the car was restored by 1996 the fuel pump and carb were replaced with rebuilt and don't show signs of trouble.

I live in Phoenix AZ so our temp. is 45 in the early morning to low 70's mid day for reference.

I don't like modifications and these little stainless hose clamps are never as tight as we think and generally a pain in the butt.

I don't have access to a lift so all work is ground level.

My car lived and drove (87,000 miles) in McKeesport PA which is near Pittsburgh so I have no doubt there was snow, salt and rust which has been fixed when the car was restored (mostly).

I think at this point a solution would be to replace the entire fuel line from the tank to the Carb and eliminate the electric fuel pump.

I'm not sure if this can be done as a single line or if I have to have couplings which I don't want to be rubber hoses.

I believe the original fuel lines are steel, plated with something, and I'm not sure I can snake in a new complete line.

Jim