Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

G'day Men, I read all the valuable comments about V8's on this website and I think some of the questions asked could be answered with the info contained in the attached article written some years ago by the late Dick Benjamin of Temecula, Southern CA. If it's already common knowledge then please take it easy on me.

Many will know that Dick was, apart from one of nature's true gentlemen, a very knowledgeable person about Packards and he emailed me a copy of this article after I bought my '56 Patrician from him. He said the article once appeared in the Cormorant and he gave me permission to use it wherever I could for the benefit of others, and it was recently published in our Club magazine, the Packardian. The copy I received from Dick wasn't the best resolution, but I hope it is helpful to someone else using this website. Regards, John

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G,nite here in calif, JP,

thanks,,

what did you do with rear u joint?, i am trying to change rear flange out. to use wingless u joint

The author of the attached PDF spends a lot of magazine page space discussing the short comings and fixes to lifter clatter and the original oil pumps. For the last several years, most would agree that there is a better solution, to wit: the Oldsmobile oil pump conversion. It fixes all of the problems described, except of course the retention of the vacuum pump for which electric wiper conversions are available. BTW, on the original oil pump which came out of my 55 Pat, the drive pin to the vac pump had sheared, so the vac pump wasn't working anyway.

For those who don't know, Jack Vines now sells the Olds pump conversion kit, so contact him if you want/need one.

Craig

G'day Riki, I haven't done anything about it yet - still have to get under the old girl and take it out for inspection and measurement. If I remember correctly, I received advice that the only '56 senior cross reference is the '55 - '56 Chrysler Imperial, but I've no idea what that part # is. We're in the middle of Winter here so the enthusiasm is a bit low just now.

Craig, I take your point about the Old's pump. Obviously that wasn't a fix that was known when Dick wrote the article. What was being done then, in his area anyway, was that the Packard pump was essentially rebuilt and the vac pump dumped. I've forgotten the exact details but the pump housing was re-machined to take a longer 1/2" shaft, Cadillac gears fitted (have 1/2" bore) and a 1/2" (I think) plate machined to support the bottom of the shaft and bolted to the pump. My car has one of these fitted and it seems to be working well. The vac wiper system was dumped also and replaced with a Chev electric motor and, while not perfect, that works OK too. I was hopeful that the other info in the article might be useful for those working on their V8's. If not, no harm done I suppose. Regards, John

The article in that PDF appears to be something of a follow-up to Dick's previous article, "Click 'n' Clack, The Tappet Druthers", which was published in The Packard Cormorant (Issue #69) back in 1993. It seems to reiterate some key points, but brings up a few good new ones.

I experienced the same problem with plugged oil drains in the heads of one of the much-revered SBCs back in the 1980s. With less than 60K on the clock, the 305-V8 was burning oil at the rate of about a quart every 400 miles. Everyone thought it was rings, but my dad wanted to pull the valve covers. As we did, oil spilled out and onto the garage floor - well over a quart in total.

Clearly, the trapped oil had been sipped into the combustion chambers, as the oil level in the heads rose above the intake valve seals. Also, there was baked on crud (looked like wrinkle finish paint) all over. We replaced the intake stem seals, one-at-a-time, cleaning up the crud as best we could, and rodded out the drains. I put another 30K on the clock and never had to add a quart of oil between changes (and at 5K intervals).

Moral of That Story: Never underestimate the potential for neglect by some P/O, no matter who made the engine.

I fully respect the insights of anyone who has rebuilt as many engines as Dick has, but don't fully agree with his view of the different types of V8 oil pumps. Originally, there were three types of pumps: 1st) the Packard application, with the integral vacuum pump; 2nd) the American Motors application, with a heavy cast bottom plate (but no vacuum pump); and 3rd) the Studebaker (Golden Hawk) application, with a flat steel bottom plate (also no vacuum pump).

IMHO, the presence of the sump/dip tube does not constitute a "type, as that part was intended for field service by dealers and was recommended for BOTH Packard (per STB 56T-20) and Studebaker (per SSL No. 936) applications. However, a second design of the Packard pump, with the relief valve plugged, was introduced in production for both Packard and Studebaker applications (but not AM), which would constitute a 4th and 5th type.

Meanwhile, except for normal wear of internal pump clearances, I never really believed that the separator plate used with the vacuum pump was the culprit. Surely, 56J Golden Hawk owners must have reported similar problems, else they would not have recommended the sump tube. Yet, the Studebaker application had no vacuum pump and even used thicker material for its bottom plate. I do, however, suspect that Packard might have been onto something WRT to the relief valve sticking; installation of the sump tube in that regard might be cheap insurance.

I suspect there might be other little running changes that even the Zones weren't briefed on (WRT block as well as pump), but those might only be discovered, now (in lieu of bona fide engineering notes), by a careful audit of available factory engineering drawings.

Still, I'm glad to see that Dick touched on the matter of wear at the driving shaft, which has been addressed by other rebuilders.

Also, I can imagine how any grit left in the crank journals could have, in lieu of modern, full-flow filtration, gotten by the pickup screen and would accelerate wear of the pump - and anything else, downstream. Yup, that might just explain a lot.

I'm no master motor rebuilder, but there's no substitute for careful forensic analysis, on a case-by-case basis, to see why the the lifters are making noise - could be more than the pump is involved. Increasing pump volume might only be a temporary fix.

The problem with the V-8 is that it is not consistent. Some of those motors never gave any trouble while others clattered. The Packard pump has tons of capacity, but the Olds pump is a gerotor pump instead of gears. That will change the flow characteristics. Given that the oil pump should be replaced as part of any motor rebuild, the Olds option is the best path to follow.

It disconcerting that Packard had oil pump issues with two consecutive motor programs. The 356 and the V-8

The Olds pump has gears similiar to the Packard pump. IIRC the olds gears are larger.

I'm going with the Old pump I can't drive it with the intertmitent clatter and power loss. I

Good choice Dano,

I have the Olds/Melling pump and full flow filter in my 400. Over 5k in miles since engine rebuilt without any issues. I think you will be very happy and ever more confident to drive your Packard long distances with it installed.

Please excuse my ignorance on this one but I assume the full flow filter is a mod for the bypass oil filter fitted by the factory. I must have missed (or forgotten) any discussion about this. Is there a separate topic for the mod or any info on what and how to fit one of these? It certainly has me interested as, apart from the impact on engine oil cleanliness, over here bypass filter elements are getting harder to come by, and more expensive as a result (around $25 - $30 a pop). Cleaning the cannister at filter change time is a pain in the proverbial also. Thanks, John