Packard Forum Index » V-8 (1955-56)

A week ago last Sunday, I went on a quest to find a brass "cross fitting" for my '51. It being a nice warm day, I took my '55 Patrician for a total of about 27 miles. At the beginning of the drive, the Oil Pressure Gauge read about half way as usual. On the way back into Portland at a speed of about 50 mph, I looked down at the Oil Pressure Gauge and was disturbed to see that the needle sat at about 20 psi. At a stop light I looked again and the gauge read 0 (zero) psi though the engine was still as silent as the tomb and the temp was normal. It was then I realized two things: First, I left my cell phone at home; Secondly, there are no phone booths anywhere anymore. The up shot: There was no calling AAA. Fortunately, I was, by that time, pretty close to home so I gingerly drove there. Once safely in the garage I checked the dipstick. I had changed the oil a few days before and it was still there and a half quart over as usual. I called it a day and went in.

Busy pretty much all last week with the only Packard thing doing was putting the '51 back together. For you fans or irony out there, I then had two running Packards. The first a '51 200 Deluxe that only and always has one of two readings on a mechanical gauge - ZERO when the engine isn't running and 40 psi when it is running - no matter if the engine is turning 300 RPM or 3000 RPM - but sounds like there is a brace of Flamingo Dancers under the hood.
The other being the '55 running lousy oil pressure but dead silent when running.

This last weekend, I decided to look into the problem. First off was replacing the stock Oil Pressure Sender with a mechanical gauge. On cold start up the mechanical gauge needle drifted up to 40 psi and then slowly settled down to about 25 psi. I let the engine run for about 5 minutes then shut it off. I waited about 90 seconds and restarted the engine and got ZERO Pressure! It was like the pump had lost its' prime. Went out the next day (Sunday) and it did a repeat of Saturday's performance. I just got back in from giving it another shot after adding another half quart of oil and this time the gauge read ZERO right from the start. Though all this, the lifters were silent. I left the engine running while keeping my ears open and eventually, the needle lazed it's way to 20 psi.
When I had the car serviced before I began really driving it, the oil pan was dropped and cleaned and the engine flushed with the pan dropping again for a re-clean. This also revealed that the oil pump was not OEM though it was, according to the third owner who knew it's history, "factory" through 1973. I have heard the lifters make noise. The first time was after I woke it from it's 30 year nap and a second time after an oil change though not the last one. In both cases the lifter noise was short lived.

I have said that I intended to switch out the oil pump to an Olds Conversion Assembly when the time came and it certainly looks like that time has arrived. But!

Can anyone clue me in on this one? One thought was that the Oil Pressure Relief Valve is hanging up on something. Like maybe the oil change moved something that is "holding the door open". I realize than the pump being a Mystery Pump makes diagnosis difficult but I am really curious about this little mystery. Especially why an engine design with a known lifter noise problem would be silent with NO oil pressure.

By the way. I realize I'm really pushing my luck by running this engine any more than absolutely necessary so I won't.

First thought is that the second gauge also could be erratic, I have seen it happen.
If the motor is quiet, you could pull a valve cover and see if things are oiling correctly. Maybe dump a can of "motor honey" in while it is warm & running and watch the gauge.
It's always possible a chunk is caught in the pressure relief valve...
My compliments on taking your time and doing it right.
Best wishes!

Here is what I would do given this problem can be replicated.

Put a Tee fitting with a drain cock connected to a piece of plastic tubing via a compression fitting . When the oil gauge reads zero open the petcock and direct the flow down the oil fill. Close the petcock and read the pressure. If the pressure is normal the sender location is in an air pocket that may get pushed out to the lifters causing intermittent valve clatter.

This is consistent with another theorist on this forum who conjectured about air pockets in the V-8. If you had no oil pressure to the mains the motor would sound like a stone crusher under load.

64Avanti & Tim - my thanks to both of you for your prompt replies & advise.

When I had this problem almost exactly a year ago I wondered then about the possibility of an air pocket. Especially since the first time I stuck a cocktail straw down into the sender hole and brought up a bit of sludge. At that time, after carefully cleaning the port, I installed a new electrical sender and noticed what a tiny opening the sending unit had. This time the problem occurred after an oil change which makes me wonder.

Tim, I'll put together the pieces you suggest tomorrow and see if I can get a good flow from the sending passages. I also noted when I first started the engine today there was NO oil movement through the clear plastic tube to the manual gauge unlike another time when checking the pressure on my Ford F-250 using the same equipment the oil movement was immediate and the consistency was solid rather than spotty. It may be wishful thinking on my part but I can't help but feel that if the pressure is this low thought out the oiling system, the engine, to say the least, would be complaining. Once I've established that I've got good oil flow and pressure to the sending port but the psi reading still leaves something to be desired, I may try the "Motor Medic" route.

Thank you again, guys!

Olds oil pump conversion: problem solved permanently.

Craig

JMHO, but I wouldn't put motor honey, stp, marvel mystery oil, wynn's, et al, in any engine I owned.

jack vines

Interesting reading this, and the many, many, many others who've talked about oil pressure issues with the Packard V-8 including a fellow I knew well that worked for ECA Los Angeles citing similar issues from the day they were new. I really admire all the folks who work so diligently at better understanding why the Packard V-8 has exhibited chronic issues readily known from the day they were new. It'd be really interesting to know exactly why that was. In reading all these reports, I've come to realize my neighbor Walt was right... the V=8 had some sort of oiling issue.

It's really fascinating to read all the fixes various clubs and individuals have come up with. Thick plates, bushings, denial of any problem in the first place, and sundry other approaches. What's more interesting than that has got to be the rate of recorded repeat issues with the sundry modified versions. Yet in all that... there are those staunch believers that the favorite flavor of modified Packard pump solved everything and that's that. I really admire the belief and confidence. Yet... I personally know an individual who experienced bearing failure and crank damage with 45,000 miles and a modified Packard pump. Bad luck maybe? Don't know. Sure would make a fine research project though.

Now me... I'm just too darn impatient. Literally, I have the patience of an infant. Did a little research on the '40 356 and discovered Packard experienced similar but less catastrophic problems with the 356. Oh, they did all sorts of things... Jiggle pin air bleed was the problem, then a new piston regulator in block was the problem, lifters were regularly blamed. Well, darned if after 7 years they didn't say the oil pump volume was found to be insufficient and all service replacements were superseded to the higher volume pump. I installed when doctoring up my tired old engine. Friend here in town did total rebuild to '40 356. Eventually had clacking lifters. Put the high volume pump in and what do you know... problem solved! Funny, when you compare the tooth configuration of the low volume to high volume 356 pumps, it's the identical visual to the Packard V-8 pump to the Olds HV pump gear profile. Strange coincidence. I realize I should have researched the why and how. Should have done flow analysis and looked for possible reasons why the low volume pump wasn't working and keeping up with demand. But... like I said, I have the patience of an infant. I know I should question things, and not just accept a known cure, to a known problem. But... just to many other vehicles to work on and enjoy I guess.

Oddly, in the years I've known of the kit the V-8 guys came up with, and Craig made available, I've never ever heard of any oiling issue what so ever with that kit. Wonder if that's just a coincidence? Sure is funny how that's worked out. But... Craig no longer provides the complete kit. It was time consuming and fairly expensive to produce and in the grand scheme of things woefully few sold in comparison to V-8's with known oiling issues and clacking lifters. How strange. But... Jack Vines in cooperation with Craig once again made this comprehensive kit available. What good fortune for V-8 owners with oiling system issues.

Here's the thing, I don't have a Packard V-8, but really like them! I believe I might end up with one some day. But, I worry... What if Jack stops selling the comprehensive kit? Then what? I couldn't gamble on when, not if the Packard pump would fail me. How much is the kit? I think I should maybe buy a kit from Jack just in case I end up with a V-8 car. I sure couldn't drive a V-8 without putting the pump in before I ever drove it. Reason being, in following all these V-8 cars with issues, I've learned that while no pinpointed explanation is evident for the failure, the conversion pump seems like, for whatever reason, to cure the problem in it's entirety!

How much is the kit? Surely, it must be far more reasonable than damaging bearing, crank, cam & lifters. I think I'd like to buy a kit in the near future and have one less worry should I find just the right V-8 car someday!

You know I did deal with an E series Ford that had no oil pressure and a quiet motor. The pressure would fall to near zero. The motor was shot because the local quicky lube didn't put oil in the motor. So they pulled over when the thing started getting noisy. Once oil was put in the motor got quiet, but was shot. However, this case had the gauge always going to zero. I never tried to run the vehicle up and down hills to see if it would blow up.

With all the oil pump issues on the Packard V-8 I agree with tossing the Packard oil pump and installing the Oldsmobile pump. I don't know why Packard had so many oil pump issues. Some modern cars have mickey mouse oil pumps and run like the devil. Even with the 30's cars old timers were cranking up the oil pressure to prevent number two connecting rod from going into orbit. Of course those cars also have crankshaft metal fatigue issues.

+1 for the HD Olds setup. More pressure; no noise.