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Quote:

O_D - Thanks for your efforts with this project. Hopefully, the owner of the original will allow reproduction for this good cause.

(o{}o)

Hello Owen:

I agree with you. The permission to reproduce the PPG test certificate MUST come from the owner. I hope you are successful in lobbying him for the cause. We can be patient for the right answer.

Somehow, I mistakenly thought the original came into your possession as part of your collection - I did not mean to put you on the spot like this.

Best, --Roger--

Note that the certificate is signed by Tommy Milton, the famous Indy 500 and other big event winning driver, who i think only showed up at the Packard Proving Grounds a week or two a year, so Packard could say, truthfully, that he was on their payroll and "worked" at the Proving Grounds.

Of all the names that might've signed the certificate, they use Tommy Milton's, a nationally known name even among bankers, business owners who might not have followed motor racing.

Sorry, but i see shades of the brass dash plaques slapped on each 1935-36 Auburn supercharged speedster while still in the factory with an arbitrary figure just over 100 mph signed by Ab Jenkins.

I like to think the difference 'twixt even hardcore Packardites like us and the usual clubbies who swallow anything with a Packard logo (or Auburn malarkey, or Duesenberg's "265 hp," etc.) is that we think, question, and aren't babes in the woods.

BTW, even if Packard was conning, this doesn't reduce the Twelve's stature as overall, the finest luxe carriage from either side of the Atlantic in the '30s. It just underscores how tough 'twas to sell cars at any level of the market then.

Note what they say about acceleration and top speed tests within the 250 miles of individual testing. Each car, really? Each 1931-33 Marmon 16 was supposedly lapped twice at 105 mph (they each had a 3.78:1 rear axle) at the nearby Indy brickyard, but that was it.

Packard made a quality product, and charged for it. However, regardless their margins, they had to remain price competitive with Cadillac, and the model
for model pricing was often v e r y close. Skip the "car built for gentlemen by gentlemen" and look at the Big Picture. Business at the upper echelon of the market was even tougher than in the Ford/Chevy, Plymouth, Essex trenches. Each Twelve driven 2 5 0 miles?

Really? I don't buy it.

Also, over a decade later in my '47 owner's 'manual:
" The Break-In Period -- The manner in which any new car is driven for the first 250 miles has a pronounced effect upon its subsequent operation and this applies to the brakes, gears, rear axle, and other units, as well as to the engine.
The best procedure is to refrain from even momentary wide-open throttle operation. Unless emergency demands it, do not fully open the throttle for acceleration or hill climbing and limit speeds to 50 miles an hour until at least 250 miles have been driven. Observance of this advice will pay big dividends in ultimate satisfation."

So, fellow Packardites, let's think this through and be honest. "Our company" made a world-class product, arguably the world's consistently finest production automobile during the first half of the 20th Century. But might these Proving Ground certificates signed by Tommy Milton be simply shrewd marketing?
And if they really did the below with each Twelve, when did it stop? 1933?

Or....perhaps Packard did spend all this arduous time flogging each brand spanking new Twelve, picking up gravel nicks, for 250 miles against their own owner's manual adviso for "every Twelve" for a week or so, in order to print this certificate with a modicum of truth.

Alvan Macauley, on hearing of Henry Ford's paying his workers five dollars a day, accused Ford of "....running a charitable institution."

The miserable Taylor time and motion studies that led to Charlie Chaplin's 1936 send up of industrial hell, "Modern Times," were started at Packard shortly after their move to Detroit, which unlike Warren, Ohio, was an open shop environment.

I met a fellow decades ago who in the '40s, as a college student, worked a summer in the Packard factory.
Bottom line, it was a factory, albeit a well-ordered one, not Santa's workshop.

Packard was a sophisticated business set up to return serious profits to investors. Nothing wrong with that at all. Let's remember this, and that they weren't in business to leave us cars to play with and fawn over.

Meanwhile, tho' it's been over a year, we still await any SAE or other papers contrasting Packard's Saf-t-fleX IFS with the GM style used in the 1941-47 Clippers and beyond, and beginning in the R-R Silver Cloud/Bentley S-Series autumn, 1955. We know both are good. But it'd be interesting to see some hard engineering data, a report from a then current "Automotive Industries," something conclusive.

Or engineering papers comparing the four-main-bearing 473-ci Packard Twelve with the seven-main-bearing Pierce 462-ci V-12. We know the Packard had a more modern chassis, but what of the engines?

How about engineering papers --not buff hearsay or press releases -- from the day contrasting the 384-ci Chrysler Imperial, Packard and Pierce nine-main-bearing senior eights, which shared identical bore/stroke?

Or comparing the concurrent Packard with the excellent 1927-33 Stutz?

Most of us here gathered own Packards. We're sold. But let's not live in a vacuum or fantasyland.

Finally, tho' the Packard and Pierce V-12s outperformed them, the big Lincolns, KB,KA,K, of the '30s had the finest craftsmanship. Chrome plated brass interior
fittings where the topline Packards and Cadillacs used chrome plated pot metal, etc. Again, no sin here, just perspective.
BTW, simply to make an interesting thread more accessible to the casual viewer, shouldn't this discussion be on the Prewar or General forum?

Tommy Milton was at the 25,000 mile run.

https://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=8846&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&type=&mode=0&start=30

Somewhere around here I have a photo of 1935 twelves that had completed the break in trials.

I don't think Packard lied about the proving ground runs. Today I was looking at a proving ground car with an odometer reading of 159.

One reason for the extended running is to allow the valve silencers to break in. When they are new those motors idle with a low pitched growl coming from the valve train. After break in those motors were dead silent.

I don't think they were doing the runs past 1935, but I don't have any documentation other than the historical record being blank.

For what it is worth Packard published a booklet in 1935 called "Through Packard Proving Land" and the last page has the following image:

Attach file:

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Well lucky us!

My wife and I got together with a few Packard friends for dinner last night at an old restaurant frequented by Packard employees back in the day. During our conversation the topic of a PPG Test Certificate came up and I asked if the club gave out sample certificates at the 1982 Meet (I joined the club in 1990.)

One of the guys at the table (he shall remain unnamed, but those of you that have attended PAC National Meets would recognize him by his VERY distinctive moustache) says "Yes, that was copied from my original test certificate that came with a 1934 V-12 that I bought. We printed those up and Herb Misch signed them and passed them out to each Packard that completed one lap at the Proving Grounds."

So, he agreed that we could copy it - all he has to do is find it.

Say tuned.

Somewhere in the Detroit Library archives is a record indicating they were still doing the break in runs
as late as 1936. This would corroborate the above picture.