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R9 Overdrive
#1
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Bill Capron
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I have recently purchased a '48 with R-9 overdrive. When I first got the car running and driving the overdrive would "coast" properly but not engage.
I diagnosed this problem to a open circuit kick down switch. I was able to clean the switch and the overdrive worked perfectly! It would engage easily and kickdown under full throttle.
Now the problem, I'm driving down the freeway at about 65-70 MPH and the overdrive locks itself out! It basicly downshifted from overdrive to 3rd gear abruptly without warning. Since then it operates as if the lockout cable has been pulled out. It does not freewheel when coasting or make any attempt to engage. If you floor the accelerator like you were trying to cause the overdrive to kickdown it causes engine missfire ( required for kickdown to happen). The lockout cable appears to operate normally. I have changed the fluid in both the transmission and overdrive unit since this has happened. The drained fluid looked ok, no metal debris.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Posted on: 2014/2/20 0:57
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#2
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BigKev
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Gotta be electrical. Governor, solenoid, relay, or wiring.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 1:09
-BigKev


1954 Packard Clipper Deluxe Touring Sedan -> Registry | Project Blog

1937 Packard 115-C Convertible Coupe -> Registry | Project Blog
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#3
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HH56
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When you said it suddenly dropped out, that does sound electrical. If it acts as if the OD knob is pulled out, does the green light come on when you are starting out and reach the engagement speed? If not then most likely electrical and Kev has listed the things to check.

If power is getting to the system and fuse & reverse safety switch are good, some known but unusual and not commonly looked at electrical failure points have been:

The governor ground. Corrosion or looseness of a small screw holding the case and rear cover. The one in question is located at the metal tab on cover & is the one which feeds ground to the governor contacts.

The lockout switch. The switch actuator plunger is soft bakelite and the continual sliding against the lockout rod can wear the plunger down at the end. If that happened and it was worn enough, vibration could suddenly make the lockout switch no longer have contact when knob is pushed in.

You have already addressed the kickdown switch once but worth a look again anyway.

The relay itself. Make sure the side with double contacts is pulling in and the lower set of contacts have not burned. Those lower ones are the contacts that power the solenoid.

The loom. Your car may have a late one piece harness or had the problem looked at early on. If not, early harnesses had problems with the inline connectors between the main loom and the short 3 ft length connecting to transmission. The connectors were eliminated in later looms or removed in the field per service bulletin. If you still have them in your car, corrosion and sudden or intermittent loss of connection was a problem.

If the green light does come on but no engagement, then solenoid pull in or mechanical bind would be suspect. There is a set of contacts in the solenoid -- part of the pull in coil circuit that need periodic servicing. If those have failed, the solenoid cannot pull in and would explain the no engagement problem but would not have been the cause of the sudden dropout.

You can narrow it down a bit by use of a jumper. With ign on, engine off, trans in neutral, momentarily short terminal 5 at the relay to ground. That will bypass all the switches and most wiring. If power is there and relay is good, You should hear the relay activate and the solenoid should try to come in and will give a good clunk.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 10:06
Howard
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#4
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Mark Graber
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When I installed the solenoid and governor on my R9 last week I noticed that the relatively new wiring harness used the old style Wade connectors and, from underdash experience, I didn't think this was one of Packard's best ideas. So, maybe some tidbits of wisdom from the Masters are starting to stick.

What would be a good substitute connector? I am thinking that the appropriate size of pin connectors, installed with solder (not just crimped) and then heat shrinked would be the best.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 13:03
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#5
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HH56
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What would be a good substitute connector? I am thinking that the appropriate size of pin connectors, installed with solder (not just crimped) and then heat shrinked would be the best.

I think your solution is fine. Packard just had the field cut the connectors off, solder the wire ends together and tape the wires.

I generally use the bare or non insulated crimp connectors to just hold the wires in alignment so the shrink tubing is neat and with minimal bulk. Sometimes if the wire is snug in the connector, then just inserted in the connector and soldered as is so the wire and connection is still round and pretty. Other times if needed, lightly crimped to just hold wires from pulling apart. I always solder all connections.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 13:30
Howard
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#6
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HH56
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One other thing on the original question. Make sure the lockout lever is going full travel. With knob pushed fully in the lever should be almost all the way or even touching the rear stop. With knob pulled out, the lever should be about but not quite to the front stop. Sometimes the cable housing loosens and slips in the casting. If something like that happened or adjustment changed, if the lever stops before it reaches the end and is slightly still in lockout position that could prevent OD.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 13:37
Howard
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#7
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Sloride75
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Pardon the interruption, but how far "out" does the lockout knob travel?

Posted on: 2014/2/20 14:52
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#8
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Mark Graber
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Hi Mark,
Just from memory I think the knob comes out maybe 6 inches or so. My car is disassembled at the moment. Pretty sure the cable is connected to an arm on the side of the OD unit. You could get under and make sure the cable is moving the arm all the way. I suppose it is possible the cable has stretched.
Last summer my Clipper would randomly shudder and sometimes die when ready for the OD to kick in. Did lots of checks but overlooked the connections to lockout cable under the dash - too easy! They were just loose enough that road vibrations rattled them loose.
Good Luck..

Posted on: 2014/2/20 17:12
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#9
Not too shy to talk
Not too shy to talk

Bill Capron
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Update;
Thanks everyone for your replys so far.
I checked powers and grounds and found no problems. I grounded terminal 5 as suggested and the relay and solenoid both "click". I put the car on the hoist and ran it in high gear at 25 mph and grounded terminal 5, no overdrive. I removed the solenoid and observed operation when grounding terminal 5, it extends strongly. The overdrive appears to be electrically sound but does not engage.
I think the problem revolves around the fact that the car does not "coast" or "freewheel" before engagement. It appears that the overdrive unit is locked out somehow. Is it possible for the overrunning clutch to seize and lock up the unit? The lockout cable control works thru its full travel.
Any more suggestions?

Posted on: 2014/2/20 19:56
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Re: R9 Overdrive
#10
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HH56
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Have you downloaded the training manualhttps://www.packardinfo.com/xoops/html/downloads/EconoDriveTrainingBook.pdf for the R9? There are some suggestions on mechanical items that could be causing problems.

Posted on: 2014/2/20 20:22
Howard
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