Packard Forum Index » Pre-War (1899-1942)

Hello-

Trying to learn a little more about a Packard I am looking at, it's a '34 1101 Eight Phaeton, but with a dual cowl Sport setup on it, advertised as a 721 body style. I have never seen an Eight as a Phaeton Sport before, I've only ever seen them in Supers and 12's, and I know they're quite rare. The Packard Eight parts list does list a 721 body style (Sports Phaeton) as an option, but it is not listed as an option in the '34 sales portfolio. Of course, there is no patent plate on the car. Embossed body number is 185827. Engine and frame #'s are both numbers for 11th series Eights. I've read one claim that Packard built 40 eights as Sport Phaetons, but I am highly dubious of that claim, and have been unable to verify that. This one was restored in the late '70's, and I'm thinking it may have been changed over then? Has anyone ever seen a real 721 before? My apologies of this has been covered previously by someone, I just couldn't find any other info about it on the forum. Thanks!

A missing patent plate should automatically cast suspicion about authenticity. But note that the highly respected analysis of surviving vehicle numbers by Charlie Blackman estimates that 16 of 721 style were built. In my own records I note 721-26 as a surviving car with theft-proof 182417, which would also represent the 16th such car. So Charlie and I are apparently both dependent on the same single bit of data in our conclusions.

Have you discussed this with Jim Pearsall of Zarepath, New Jersey? Jim is a leading historian in this era of Packards, and especially the 11th Series, IMO he is absolutely the go-to guy with such questions.

Thank you for that info... The lack of a plate has me obviously suspicious too. I have not reached out to Jim, but I will... thanks!

A fake Eight is rather disingenuous. When it comes to Packard open cars I'll wager there are more fakes than originals. I know of one V-12 Sport Phaeton that has an eight body it. I've also seen two other 34 Eight Phaetons with missing vehicle plates. Why they were taken off I do not understand. With all of these fakes it is better to keep the original plate no matter how beat up.

Try looking under the carpet on the passenger side front sill wood. If the original wood is there the same body/sequence number will show. Failing that, try the rear sill wood on the passenger side. Of note, the sport phaeton body has a few individual clues of their own that would be difficult to "fake" as has been put above. The 'B' pillar has vents in them that correspond with vent screen in the front seat back panel. The sheet metal around the back of the front seat is straight which accomodates a jamb of sorts for the passenger cowl to rest in rather than the curved sheet metal on a 5 passenger version. The doors are also unique and carry the sides of the same door jamb. To fake such coachwork detail on an eight seems rather counter-intuitive and a lot of expense usually reserved for Super 8s or V-12s. As to the whole notion of such, as long as one was honest and documents their efforts to get the car they wanted it seems like sour grapes to call such cars fakes. There was a time when folks just used all the best parts they could aquire to have the cars of their dreams, and also a time when most clubs and marque-specific orgs didn't care as long as it was all gennie Packard (or Auburn, Cadillac, etc) parts used to create the end result. Back then buyers and collectors didn't care either. The troubles begin if said cars are being touted as the way they were born rather than a disciplined venture into preserving them. just my opinion and overview FWIW.