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Re: Document camera
#11
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Tim Cole
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I think the program being used has a lot to do with results.

When Microsoft throws in some canned program in a new version of Windows that is junk, I just bring in the old stuff and use that.

I took a jpeg file, made a copy, opened and saved it two dozen times in the old paint program. Then I opened both files, magnified them to 800% and couldn't see a difference.

However, I will say that if you crop something in that program and save it, the borders of what was cropped will be blended using some amalgamation thing.

Posted on: 12/29 16:10
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Re: Document camera
#12
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PackardDon
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Quote:
PNG is becoming very common and often replacing JPGs while HEIF seems to be taking longer for basic applications to support.


While PNG is technically lossless, it does offer compression to make the file size smaller if desired although it does so differently than the JPG/JPEG or GIF formats do.

As for BigKev allowing PNG format on the site, that is true and many browsers today accept the format even though it is non-standard for Web use. Only JPG/JPEG and GIF formats are an official part of the Web standard.

As Howard alluded to, HEIC is an Apple-only format that cannot be opened by many applications or browsers due to patent issues. Developers adding it to applications require payment of a hefty license so likely they are converted during upload.

Posted on: 12/30 4:09
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Re: Document camera
#13
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HH56
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I bit the bullet and bought a Viisan K21 book and document camera. Chose that one because of the A3 size capability and finished software that works on the latest Mac systems. Several others also had possibilities but some name brands were Windows only and the other comparable quality Mac capable camera I considered was still in beta software for latest Mac OS and Apple processor.

Still learning the solfware capabilities to get the best resolution, file type and size or speed combinations so that will take a bit of time but getting the basics down as far as actual scan procedure was very fast and easy to do. Just open the book, center it on the guide lines showing in the software view pane and push the button or in my case the foot pedal to capture the image. Night and day difference when trying to scan the same book pages on my old flatbed scanner.

I just posted some carb info in the WDO 351S thread if anyone is curious about image quality. While I do have a bit more to learn in centering and getting the lighting optimized for even page illumination, as a first effort I was not terribly disappointed in either ease of use or quality of image.

Posted on: 1/11 15:28
Howard
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Re: Document camera
#14
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58L8134
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Hi

The one question I have, does the software visually 'flatten' out the image to accommodate the bound page making a distorted image?

Steve

Posted on: 1/11 17:10
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner.
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Re: Document camera
#15
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HH56
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It seems to do a fairly decent job. The Viisan has a line showing in the live display image on the computer monitor and you place the book so the line is centered in the crease between pages. Getting that line placed exactly is a bit persnickety and as you can see on one of the first attempt images, if the line is not dead center and the printing is close to the center the image can get cut off a bit by the software algorithm as it does the flattening. As I use the system more, hopefully that placing the book part gets more routine. Even if it doesn't the image check view is fast and taking a new image is just a matter of moving something and hitting the switch again.

The other Mac OS camera I was considering in this range is made by Czur and their software and how to use videos show several lines -- one in the center and then a couple on each side horizontal across the pages. I am not sure if those are laser lines projected on the book or if they are also only on the placement image. Czur claims to have superior and proprietary flattening algorithms. I seriously considered them for a couple of other nice features and reasons but the fact their software for Mac OS 12 and the Apple M1 processor was still in beta with no estimated release date was a deciding factor.

Here is a screen capture of a raw image of the carb info as taken from a laid open book and before it was exported. The image appears nicely flattened and software gives several option of exporting in different formats.

EDIT: This Viisan camera has laser lines which do project on the book and can be turned on independently. Feature is barely mentioned in the operator manual and I found it by accident when seeing a tiny icon in the software and wondering what it did.

Attach file:



jpg  book.jpg (1,131.11 KB)
209_61de0cc7606e6.jpg 2022X1474 px

Posted on: 1/11 18:09
Howard
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Re: Document camera
#16
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Fish'n Jim
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It seems like to me, the center is bright and the periphery is darker. Learning curve or can you change the contrast like in photoshop, etc.?
Not sure if that's from the flattening or from the picture taking/lighting. Did I miss the price of that system?

Posted on: 1/12 16:43
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Re: Document camera
#17
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HH56
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Quote:

Fish'n Jim wrote:
It seems like to me, the center is bright and the periphery is darker. Learning curve or can you change the contrast like in photoshop, etc.?
Not sure if that's from the flattening or from the picture taking/lighting. Did I miss the price of that system?


Combination of both. The illuminating light brightness can be changed and it is a learning curve to get the brightness to match the gloss of the paper so as not to have too bright a spot in the middle of the page. One of the other brand scanners has some additional side lights to help with that situation but I chose not to go with it because it was the one with Mac software still in beta.

Software is also new to me so am feeling my way thru the options. I think the darker grayish edges may be due to the illumination light level and the fact you hold the pages flat with fingers on the page edge and the software removes your hand image in the final output. Not sure how that works so need more practice to see if it is persistent.

After scanning the carb pages above I was playing and discovered the icon to turn on additional laser lights to assist in positioning. That will probably make a big difference when the next project comes along.

As to price, it is fairly comparable to a flat bed scanner that can do the same page sizes. This one can do up to A3 which is about 11 3/4 x 16 1/2. With taxes it was about $360 at Amazon. There are less expensive units which will only do up to the standard 8 1/2 x 11 or maybe legal size 8 1/2 x 14 which was my old flatbed limits. A couple of others can cover up to a newspaper page size but those are over 1k. https://www.viisan.com/en/product/K21.html

Posted on: 1/12 19:50
Howard
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Re: Document camera
#18
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58L8134
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Thanks Howard.

Looks like it beats my current method which is to photograph on my front porch with the best natural light once I've rigged up flattening the magazine with popsicle sticks and metal spring clips. Crude but affective. I haven't done much with bound books.

Once I get a good image (always take two or three) I use the www.irfanview.com software to clean up the images to the best I can get them. I might have to look into one of these Visan units.

Steve

Posted on: 1/13 18:11
.....epigram time.....
Proud 1953 Clipper Deluxe owner.
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Re: Document camera
#19
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Fish'n Jim
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I guess one alternative it to cut the binding from the book(unbind)and then deal with the pages flat but you are sacrificing the book. I guess a book binder could do it and then rebind. But the old papers is usually too fragile to put in an ADH.
This is a good option if it's a deteriorating copy.
I don't do much with pre-war, but did a Packard section of a motors manual that Kev put on here a long time ago. It was tedious flipping and turning page by page on the flat top, so if we preserve some of this at small cost it's got long term benefits. Some of the other brand sites/clubs I deal with don't have such a rich library to feed on, and that's unsettling/unfortunate as I try to change minds. Kudos to Big Kev for his foresight. INFO, when it's gone, it's gone.

Posted on: 1/14 9:15
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Re: Document camera
#20
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Tim Cole
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I would put the subject between two pieces of heavy plate glass.

I made a light filter up using that method and it works great. I put it in front of the focal plane.

Posted on: 1/14 18:07
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