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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2/21 7:54:51
From Woodinville, WA
Posts: 18
I bought the engine about 10 year.
It was in a parts car. I did not rebuild the engine, did open it up checked for tight bearings, seals, etc. I replace all the external parts, including the oil pump and distributed with rebuilt. I reassembled not knowing about pump orientation. I will take it out an d verify correct installation.
In the 10 years I have concentrated with ground up restoration and now ready to get it on the road.
The original engine is complete freezed up and I plan a complete rebuild after the parts car engine can get running.

Posted on: 3/19 10:46:27
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/16 15:39
From Santa Fe
Posts: 5375
As discussed earlier, there is a procedure for 'timing' the oil pump so that the the distributor rotor is at the factory position. Actually, No. 1 rotor position can be anywhere, it does not have to be at the factory position. Simply bring the engine to No. 1 firing position as indicated on the timing marks on the damper and on the compression stroke. Then, determine where the rotor is pointing and make that position to be No. 1. Wire the spark plug wires in the correct order following the distributor rotation and engine firing order. This will get your firing order correct and you can go back and 'time' the oil pump afterwords.

Also, IIRC, the distributor can be inserted into the engine in two positions - 180 degrees apart. Incorrect installation will prevent the engine from running.

Hope this helps.

Posted on: 3/19 11:04:17
_________________
Packards Owned -
37 Six (115C) Convertible Coupe (1089) - Now in Belgium
47 Clipper Custom Super Touring Sedan (2122) - Now in Virginia
55 Cipper Super Sedan (5542) - Now in Maryland

We move toward and make happen what occupies our mind. (W. Scherer)
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/12/21 11:14
From Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 186
Before I jump in on this tread and add my 2¢ I would like to ask a question as to the number of teeth on the oil pump gear? If it is 8 then the following applies because at worst the engine timing would be ‘off’ by some number of full cylinders. If it’s 16 teeth (none of the service manual photographs would suggest this number is factual) then the engine could be mis-timed by some number of half cylinders and the distributor could not be adjusted to accommodate a half cylinder error. By bet is on the 8 tooth response.
Packwagon be aware that when JW says “as indicated on the timing marks” you must also ensure the #1 cylinder is in fact just at the top of the compression stroke.

Before you take the oil pump off would you consider trying to get the engine to fire-up first? This business of oil pump timing is only to have every engine leaving the plant will have the same distributor tower as being #1. If you don’t mind violating that standard for a short while, I would recommend to set the engine on #1 - 6° BTDC (again at the end of the compression stroke), note which way the rotor is pointing, and static time the engine by rotating the distributor until the points just begin, as anticipated with a slip of thin paper, to open (at one time we would use the cigarette pack cellophane of this). Then I would install the spark plug wires ‘casually’, meaning not routed through the isolator . . . they could be routed helter-skelter just as long as the correct tower is connected to the correct plug .

At the end of this rewiring and preliminary timing adjustment you can retry the start attempt. If all is well you can spend the rest of the tidy-up, or tackle the oil pump re-timing with full knowledge that the engine just ran. Of course you will be messing with the distributor installation, wiring, and preliminary static timing again, but by this time you will be the forum expert on the subject.

dp

Posted on: 3/19 16:39:01
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2/21 7:54:51
From Woodinville, WA
Posts: 18
I think I will pull the oil pump tomorrow it should not take to. Long and then I can cross that off the list. A bigger problem is my battery get low pretty fast. I have done everything that has been suggested. One more round of testing coil and ignition settings and I’m sure it will fire off.
Thanks to all for your help and suggestions

Posted on: 3/19 23:31:10
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2/21 7:54:51
From Woodinville, WA
Posts: 18
Thanks for all advice
I am making progress, I found back coil-dist wire, I installed new intimation wires and now found that #1, #3, #7 are not carrying any juice. Unbelievable, they are new and the others show good spark.
Can this be? Also the spark at the points seems to be inconsistent too I changed condenser. Maybe a new coil is in order??? Although the one I put in was new, they can be bad out of the box occasionally, right?

Posted on: 3/21 11:01:22
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2013/7/17 6:26
From Clover, SC
Posts: 619
Didn't say if motor is in the car or on a stand?
Check your grounding, too.

From sound of things it's turning, spark, etc. So most likely either timing or fuel.
They'll run with most, not all the cylinders firing. New wires should work, so the connections are suspect, wrorng end clips, not engaged, etc.
If the battery is down and the starter warm, it may not be turning fast enough, but these run ~400 rpm at idle, so don't need much, but if battery is up and it's barely turning then the wiring to the starter and to and from the battery is not providing enough amps.
The carb starter has to be working or it won't turn at all - no juice to starter.
Anorher problem when they don't start is they "flood" out trying, ie, too much fuel. Once liquid in the cylinders, it's over the UFL and won't burn. So you have to let set and I like to take the plugs out and clean and dry them. So if the carbs not been touched, it could be dumping gas.
I'll give my standard speech, you check each system out first thoroughly, then when everything is right, move to starting.
Jumping in and not starting, you don't know what the problem is. Had each system been thoroughly checked, that is eliminated. More likely to fire right off. Work methodically.

Posted on: 3/22 7:05:37
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Not too shy to talk
Joined:
2/21 7:54:51
From Woodinville, WA
Posts: 18
Okay I was overwhelmed with lots of issues. You are right. I had to stop and be systematic. Starting with the battery I put on 2/0 wires and it helped. Then to the coil and found bad condenser. New wires were next, had a little trouble with the ends but got them to fit good and tight.
Then found points were sparking irregularly and saw that they were burned, , then verified all wires were firing and found I wired the firing order was wired in CW and should have beenCCW. The only thing that worked fine fro the start was the fuel pump. I am happy to say that it start up and now I can do some tuning. Thanks to all of the adivice and help from all who answered.

Posted on: 3/22 19:09:29
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/2/16 15:39
From Santa Fe
Posts: 5375
I was taught that the three basics are Compression, Electrical, and Fuel in that order. Lots of detail in each one, but this provides a systematic way to trouble shoot an engine for condition, starting and running issues.

Posted on: 3/23 8:34:18
_________________
Packards Owned -
37 Six (115C) Convertible Coupe (1089) - Now in Belgium
47 Clipper Custom Super Touring Sedan (2122) - Now in Virginia
55 Cipper Super Sedan (5542) - Now in Maryland

We move toward and make happen what occupies our mind. (W. Scherer)
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2008/10/31 12:20
From Portland, Oregon, USA
Posts: 1468
I'm so proud of myself. I actually solved the critical problem in the first response, Post#2. I actually helped someone with their engine! I am so stupid when it comes to mechanical stuff.

The only reason that happened is because my '40 manual shows the firing order in clockwise rotation, so I set up my wires and distributor that way. I went on a big Easter egg hunt myself until I watched the fan go CCW. (I didn't think to leave the distributor cap off, place a mirror on the frame near it so I could watch the rotor's direction from the cabin, until later.) Once I realized that, I rewired in CCW order and shazam, it started and ran.

So happy you got it going, Packwagon. I have learned by doing, with a lot of help from my friends here at packardinfo.com

Posted on: 3/23 9:31:26
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Re: 1948 Packard not starting
Home away from home
Joined:
2016/3/13 15:24
From Coalmont, B.C., Canada
Posts: 881
I don't think you give yourself NEAR enough credit, Joe. I've read your blog (all 93 pages of it, post-by-post) and you encountered, reasoned through, and solved innumerable problems with your '40, where lots of folks would have thrown their hands up in utter frustration! I am no mechanic either, but I can 'monkey-see, monkey-do' pretty good and always stick with it until I get SOMEWHERE. 'Have to say, I found inspiration AND assistance in that Blog-Journey of yours and it may have contributed to me not giving up when I fought to get my car to run properly for over 3 years!!! Give yourself some kudos. Chris.

Posted on: 3/23 16:37:00
_________________
'If you think you can, or you think you can't, you're right!' Henry Ford

1939 Six, Model 1700

http://packardinfo.com/xoops/html/modules/registry/index.php?Action=view&ID=1823
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